Skyraiders ...

[Mark Allen M]

Btw here's another question for you Spad experts. We're there ever cases during the Vietnam Conflict where pilots flew both Huey's and Spads in combat? I ask because my brother-in-law flew both types as well as C-46's before jumping into the airlines. Never got to ask him specifics about it though. Perhaps after coming home from SEA he flew different types. Not sure.

[Snake45]

We're there ever cases during the Vietnam Conflict where pilots flew both Huey's and Spads in combat? I ask because my brother-in-law flew both types as well as C-46's before jumping into the airlines.

He didn't work for or have any connection with "The Company," did he?

You raise something I've been wanting to ask. Was there any CIA use of Skyraiders in SEA? In all my research, I've never seen mention of such, but did see a model someone built on such information. Also, in the Mutza book, there a pic of an unmarked A-1E/G (though you can see where the fuselage star has recently been removed--VNAF or USAF, of course we don't know, but the airplane itself is textbook MAP/VNAF-spec) taxiing past an also unmarked C-123...and we know who used those.

[Snake45]

Good morning Snake, since your one of those master modelers, what's the process used to tint the windows blue on that last model. Looks really neat like that. Is that some sort of film applied or some kind of spray? Or did the model producer have it fabricated that way already in the box? I'm not a model builder but I'm always fascinated by the attention to detail some of you guys go lengths to achieve.

Thx Mark

Well, I don't know what others do, but here's how I did it on this one (still under construction):

I bought a new "little bottle" of Testor Metalflake Blue, shook it up thoroughly, and then let it sit for several days, checking it every day. When the metal flakes had settled to the bottom but the blue paint hadn't yet settled under the (clear) thinner, I carefully poured off the (transparent) blue paint, thinned it with naphtha, and airbrushed it on carefully in several thin coats (on the inside), being careful not to get any runs. This is the Matchbox 1/48 kit, but I did a Monogram 1/72 exactly the same way.



I'm currently "restoring" another Monogram 1/72 that I built as a kid. (Actually I'm just trying to get it good enough to put on a stand for my desk at work, not a full-on "Snakestyle" build.) On this one I just brushed two coats of Tamiya Clear Blue on the inside. If you look carefully, you can see brush marks and other flaws, but on this particular model that doesn't bother me. I think others airbrush this paint, but I've never had much luck airbrushing Tamiya.

[Snake45]

These two kits represent 528. Note both use the "ET" tail code of the 6th, which is plausible, because, as far as we know, "6T" was a later mod after the unit began reguar SAR dets at Da Nang. Model source unknown.

Ken

Ken, where did you get these pictures? I'd like to know more about these models.

I can't even tell you what kit they are. I suspect they're the Tamiya AD-6 kit converted with either a commercially available resin fuselage set or a Matchbox A-1G fuselage. Both are very interesting work. I hesitate to comment further without knowing the source.

[Snake45]

Just found this pic of 528 on Wikipedia, of all places:

[Snake45]

So, to sum up on 132528, we now have photos of it:

*In USN Gull Gray/White scheme, VNAF markings, with blue back room.

*In USN Gull Gray/White scheme, VNAF markings, with G-style metal rear canopy.

*In SEA camo, USAF service, with blue back room.

*In SEA camo, USAF service, with G-style metal rear canopy.

*In SEA camo, VNAF service, with G-style metal rear canopy (apparently final configuration).

It looks like the rear canopy section must have been swapped at least twice.

All that's missing is a photo of it in the Gull Gray/White scheme in USAF markings, as it would have appeared between July and November of 1965, when it was "borrowed" by USAF.

Who knows, I might even turn up a pic of it in USN service, either in GG/W or Glossy Sea Blue!

[Snake45]

So, to sum up on 132528, we now have photos of it (and so forth and so on)...

Who knows, I might even turn up a pic of it in USN service, either in GG/W or Glossy Sea Blue!

Seek, and ye shall find!

[Ken]

Random thoughts:

The pic of 528 is an awesome find!

I don't have a source for those models but I have many more shots found online of excellent builds. While I don't want this to become a "model thread", I may sprinkle in a few pix if they add to the discussion.

I have a particular interest in the 6th SOS and I have noticed that, unlike the normal meticulous AF markings, many A-1s of the 6th had their "ET" applied crooked and the letter "E" frequently has an uneven symmetry that differs between planes. The last shot of 528 has an odd E and note the "AF32" is also nonstandard. IIRC, the original batch of birds for the 6th arrived in Da Nang as a group and the camo paint (applied in the US) is also a bit off as compared to some of the more professional (for lack of a better term) appearing birds from NKP later on. There are several pix out there of the planes being readied for flight as well as a 6th history done as a doctoral project by a former 6th crew chief at a school in NC, will see what I can post when I am home.

Snake, would you please explain again which E models left the factory without cannon or weapons capability and if any of these showed up in SEA? I was unaware of that .... Do you have a source?

Ken

[Snake45]

Snake, would you please explain again which E models left the factory without cannon or weapons capability and if any of these showed up in SEA? I was unaware of that .... Do you have a source?

Ken

AFAIK the AD-5Ws were built as such and left the factory without cannons installed and AFAIK were always unarmed in USN service. We now know that some of these became USAF A-1E-5s so obviously retained the capability to have cannons (and outer pylons) installed.

The AD-5Qs (EA-1Fs), with two factory-built exceptions, were all conversions from -5Ns which were of course born armed. In USN service they (the Qs/-1Fs) were normally unarmed, if my impressions are correct, but I do have accounts of some of them having at least two cannons mounted for special use (the VAW-13 air defense detachment, for example).

[Ken]

Btw here's another question for you Spad experts. We're there ever cases during the Vietnam Conflict where pilots flew both Huey's and Spads in combat? I ask because my brother-in-law flew both types as well as C-46's before jumping into the airlines. Never got to ask him specifics about it though. Perhaps after coming home from SEA he flew different types. Not sure.

Is it possible, yes, but likely, no. While the AF had some Hueys, they were few and I'm unaware of any Army exchange pilots. Of course the Navy /Marine had some examples of each but I'm assuming he was USAF. Have you tried an advanced search for his name at skyraider.org? Hook has a photo and roster for over 98% of the AF pilots so your bro-in-law would likely be listed there if he was a trained A-1 guy (vs a ride or two in-country).

Ken

[Snake45]

This one's interesting to me (as a model-nerd) because of what's in the background. It looks like a T-28 in Gull Gray and white. And that airplane's much lighter than the Skyraiders, indicating that they're probably 36373 or something very close to that.

[Snake45]

And can we stand one more pic of good ol' 528? I think we can.

[Adam Kline]

Could be the lighting on the T-28 making it look different. I wouldn't trust any pictures over the internet for color reference, as there is considerable degradation of color depending on the scan or computer screen or the picture itself. I have modeled a VNAF Skyraider A-1H before and I used a combination of photos out of books as well as some internet stuff, but as you already know it is ultimately a guesstimate. Computer color degradation is one reason I totally stopped selling stuff on Ebay. People would want to return things because the color wasn't want they saw in the screen shot.

[Ken]

These first two photos should be of the initial unpacking of the 6th SOS airplanes as they arrived at Da Nang, later to be ferried to Pleiku to begin operations. I don't have the date handy, but timeframe is early 1968. For interested readers, the Master's thesis written on the 6th may be downloaded here: http://thescholarship.ecu.edu/handle/10342/2943





This photo is provided for Snake's sake ...

[Snake45]

This photo is provided for Snake's sake ...

I logged that pic and two similar ones last night, but I didn't notice till just now that this stupid airplane has BOTH VNAF and USAF antennas on it--and no tailhook. Yup, that's a real oddball!