LOAs and the warbird regs

[RacingMustang]

I've often read about pilots in the good 'ol days getting a "Letter of Authorization" to fly all piston-powered fighters. Guys like Steve Hinton and Jeff Ethell come to mind.

Can someone help me understand what that is? To my current understanding, if you have at least a Private license, the necessary endorsements (tailwheel, complex, high-performance), and the plane is under 12,500lbs gross, you're technically legal to fly a P-51, for example. It would be stupid of course, but the FAA would be satisfied. But reading about this, it seems that is not the case and that you need a type rating? I thought those applied only to jets and stuff over 12,500 gross. What rule am I not aware of, and does it have to do with Experimental vs Certified aircraft? And I thought I read that the FAA doesn't give out unlimited LOAs anymore?

I did search the boards here, but came up with some confusing results. Forgive me if there is a thread I missed.

—Samuel

[51fixer]

If it is a Standard Category A/C then you only need a PPL and retractable and High Performance sign offs if it is under 12,500.
This includes what is registered in the Limited category, P-51 is one such.

If it is registered Experimental then you used to have a Letter of Authorization needed. If you had a certain number of those earned you could get an Unlimited LOA.

Today its back to a specific rating for each A/C.

[Matt Gunsch]

A T-28A with the Wright R-1300 only needs a PPL, Complex and High Performance to fly it, a B model with the 1820 requires a LOA,
I have flown as PIC of a A model,

[flightsimer]

The type rating is required on such aircraft if they have more than 700hp per engine. Hence why the Trojan example occurs.

[Tinker51]

What you get is not a type rating. It is a listing of your "Authorized Experimental Aircraft"
The listing shows up on the back of your certificate near where type ratings are normally listed but it is not a type rating.

-edit 'cause I don't type too good-

[Scott 'Gunny' Perdue]

The reference you should look up is 8700.1 Change 32 Chapter 32 Paragraph 4B(2). Which says that piston powered surplus military airplanes over 800 HP and 250 knot Vne require specific authorization. The rest of the document mentions LOAs, but the FAA treats those as temporary (or would prefer they are temporary, and only used for training purposes) and wants to issue an Experimental Authorization in lieu of Type Rating which are listed on your license below the Limitations.

gunny

[flightsimer]

The reference you should look up is 8700.1 Change 32 Chapter 32 Paragraph 4B(2). Which says that piston powered surplus military airplanes over 800 HP and 250 knot Vne require specific authorization. The rest of the document mentions LOAs, but the FAA treats those as temporary (or would prefer they are temporary, and only used for training purposes) and wants to issue an Experimental Authorization in lieu of Type Rating which are listed on your license below the Limitations.

gunny

Thanks for the correction. I could not find the link I thought I had of the document that you provided to see if it was 700 or 800Hp. I completely forgot about the 250kts vne limitation (to not require the authorization) as well.

[cluvara]

I've often read about pilots in the good 'ol days getting a "Letter of Authorization" to fly all piston-powered fighters. Guys like Steve Hinton and Jeff Ethell come to mind.

Can someone help me understand what that is? To my current understanding, if you have at least a Private license, the necessary endorsements (tailwheel, complex, high-performance), and the plane is under 12,500lbs gross, you're technically legal to fly a P-51, for example. It would be stupid of course, but the FAA would be satisfied. But reading about this, it seems that is not the case and that you need a type rating? I thought those applied only to jets and stuff over 12,500 gross. What rule am I not aware of, and does it have to do with Experimental vs Certified aircraft? And I thought I read that the FAA doesn't give out unlimited LOAs anymore?

I did search the boards here, but came up with some confusing results. Forgive me if there is a thread I missed.

—Samuel

I'm not sure why it would be "stupid of course".. but here are the regs:

http://fsims.faa.gov/wdocs/8900.1/V05%2 ... 02Rev1.htm

"NOTE: A limited number of aircraft, such as the Mustang P‑51 C, D, and K series, are currently certificated in the limited category. Since these aircraft have been issued a TC, no additional aircraft authorization is required for an airman to act as PIC. However, should the aircraft be recertificated in the experimental category, an aircraft authorization is required."

[RacingMustang]

I'm not sure why it would be "stupid of course".. but here are the regs:

http://fsims.faa.gov/wdocs/8900.1/V05%2 ... 02Rev1.htm

"NOTE: A limited number of aircraft, such as the Mustang P‑51 C, D, and K series, are currently certificated in the limited category. Since these aircraft have been issued a TC, no additional aircraft authorization is required for an airman to act as PIC. However, should the aircraft be recertificated in the experimental category, an aircraft authorization is required."

Well I was thinking about someone like myself. At 140hrs, I have all those endorsements but it would be pretty silly of me to think I'm anywhere close to the skill needed to fly a plane like that. Kinda like folks that fly a Pitts say..."with a tailwheel and HP endorsement you're 100% legal to go crash a Pitts." Seems the regs are often just the bare minimum and not always a good barometer of what is necessary to safely fly a particular plane.

[RacingMustang]

And thanks for the answers everyone. It's still a little misty in my mind, but at least I know more now. Thanks.

[b29driver]

The other thing that hasn't been mentioned is dealing with the insurance companies. Unless you are flying a Mustang uninsured you will have to deal with them and they will insist that you acquire the experimental authorization even for the limited aircraft.

Another thing is that even with the "all makes and models" on your certificate you still need to get each aircraft added to your certificate. In this case it does not require a check ride, but it does require submitting an 8710 through one of several channels after receiving the appropriate training and having flown the airplane.