Skyraiders ...

[Snake45]

The grey USAF airplanes grow on me the more images I locate of them. Here are a few, sources include the USAF, skyraider.org and some unknown.
Ken

133873 to USAF as 52-133873. With 1st Air Commando Squadron 14th Air Commando Wing shot down by ground fire near Ban Nampakhon, Savannakhet Province, Laos Mar 18, 1967. Pilot bailed out and was rescued by USAF helicopter.

X87: I need the third number, as I have at least two, maybe three "x87" on file that this airplane could be.

132634 to USAF as 52-132634. With 1st Air Commando Squadron 14th Air Commando Wing destroyed on ground in VC mortar attack at Pleiku AB, South Vietnam Apr 22, 1966.

The "true USAF" gray A-1Es were very uniform in appearance (aside of course from number on tail and cowling). Some had USAF on top right and bottom left wings, but most I've seen so far don't seem to have. About the biggest variation among them is the color of the radio compass cover--it can be white, black, or the color of the surrounding fuselage. The swept blade VHF antenna (Collins 37R-2 or equivalent) is always white, even on camo airplanes.

I've seen a few with a skull & crossbones and the word "RAIDERS" on the fin, too. Even have decals for one of them, which is probably how I'm going to build my model if/when I ever get around to it.

[Ken]

I've seen a few with a skull & crossbones and the word "RAIDERS" on the fin, too. Even have decals for one of them, which is probably how I'm going to build my model if/when I ever get around to it.

This insignia seems to be associated with the 602nd ACS and seems short lived and inconsistent, although I've seen it on more than one A-1E. IIRC, it's in the belly landing video link shared previously.

Ken

[Snake45]

Here are a few A-1E, A-1G, or A-1E-5 ... hard to tell without looking up the serials.

"Sweet Marlene" of the 602nd SOS, NKP, Thailand. Looks like all ordnance was expended, save the remaining rockets in the LAU-3 pod on Station 6. The basic LAU-3 had innards of wood and cardboard and was considered disposable and will likely be dropped when/if the remaining rockets are fired. Also interesting that no tailhook is visible. These were frequently not included when airplanes went to the VNAF and many aircraft were traded back and forth over the course of the war. Learn more about this airplane and one of her pilots in this video:
http://vimeo.com/66038238

VERY unusual Skyraider. I've got pics of USAF-marked ones with no tailhook and the VNAF "tall spike" antenna, but had so far never seen one--either USAF or VNAF--with the USAF standard VHF antenna and no tailhook.

So is this an ex-VNAF airplane that USAF mounted its own antenna on, or is it a USAF airplane from which the tailhook has been removed for some reason?

Turns out I have three other pics of 514 in my photo-database. Just looked two of them up, and the tailhook is clearly visible in both. So it's a USAF Skyraider which is missing its tailhook in this pic for some reason.

One of the pics has the TT 514 on the tail, as shown here, and the dark block below the middle canopy section, as shown here, but it does not have the SweetMarlene name on it. No date on that pic. In the other pic, it just has white 514 on the tail, no TT, and no dark block under the canopy. That one says Tan Son Nhut, 1970.

But the story gets even more interesting....

In all three of my photos, the airplane has neither the standard USAF Collins 37R-2 type antenna, nor the VNAF "tall spike," but a mystery third type that I've noted on three or four other (camoed) USAF A-1Es. Been wondering what that antenna means; thought it just might have been a late replacement/substitute for the Collins. But now that I've seen it on an airplane that I know was once equipped with the Collins, I now suspect that it might have been mounted for some sort of special use. I know that some USAF Es were drafted for mysterious "special" duties--perhaps that antenna has something to do with such use. (I suspect we'll be talking more about that antenna in the "Skyraider Questions" thread, if Ken or anyone else is interested.)

[Snake45]

Airplane from the 1st SOS, NKP Thailand

Here's that mysterious third type of VHF antenna mentioned in my post above.
I have a photo of this airplane on page 108 of Drury's wonderful My Secret War. In that pic it has the standard USAF Collins antenna, and just the SN on the tail in black, no TC codes. No date on photo. It's carrying dual minigun pods, a fairly rare but not un-heard-of loadout.

[Ken]

I'm digin' your observations, Snake. I can see I have some homework to do. My schedule is about to get full for several days but I'll revisit this shortly and I would like to ping you offline about the photos you mentioned. Thanks for taking this thread to a higher level.

Ken

[Ken]

A caption for one of these photos says "USS Core", Saigon, 1965, however I don't have a source or confirmation.




Based on the presence of a Yankee seat, small serial, and spoked wheels, I'll guess that this VNAF A-1H was photographed in 1967.

[Snake45]

A caption for one of these photos says "USS Core", Saigon, 1965, however I don't have a source or confirmation.

Very interesting pic!

I can clearly see the VNAF antennas on at least two of them.

Most seem painted in some overall gray, without markings. But the A-1E over at the right seems to have a white rudder and undersides (not uncommon for VNAF A-1Es in this timeframe).

Even more intriguing is the E at the left side of the pic. Seems to be configured as an EA-1E, with electronic pods still attached, and "711" on the cowling and gear covers, and "VR" or "VP" on top of the right wing and the fin, a USN-type marking. Looks like it's in gull gray and white, too. So what's an apparently standard USN Skyraider doing among this shipment of what seems to be MAP/VNAF airplanes?

ETA: Found it! It's BuNo 35054, assigned VAW-13. Very clear photo of it in-flight on page 52 of the B.R. Jackson Aero book. It's carrying the same pods as in this pic, same VR code on tail and wing, same 711 number on cowling, even the same stripe on the fin!

Can't find that pic on the net but here are a couple of its stable-mates:



Hey, here it is!



Am I good at this, or what?

[Ken]

Two different views of A-1H 137524 with the USAF 6th SOS. Oddly enough, Baugher doesn't list this bird. This is the second photo I have of various ground crew with a state flag (here, Pennsylvania) posing with a 6th pilot, it may have been a squadron tradition.

Note the dual 7.62 miniguns. Photos of 6th airplanes seem to show more diversity in ordnance loads than some other A-1 units due to their signature role in support of SOG teams. They also seem to have cornered the market on non-standard centerline tanks.
from skyraider.org

[Snake45]

It's on Baugher's list, he just doesn't have an individual disposition for it:

137492/137632 Douglas AD-6 Skyraider

He only has individual dispositions for maybe a third of the airplanes in his lists.

ETA: I just took a quick count on my (work in progress) USAF/VNAF AD-5 photo database. So far I've logged 147 photographs of 75 different identifiable A-1Es/Gs in USAF and VNAF service. At least 11 of them don't have individual dispositions on Baugher. (I'll send my data to Baugher when the work is finished. I have two more books and three websites to go through yet. As of right now, I've been through 28 books and magazines.)

[Mark Allen M]

group of Navy AD Skyraiders flying in formation over the U.S.S. Yorktown, CV-10,


four Navy Douglas AD Skyraiders of VA-96 flying in formation over the U.S.S. Philippine Sea, CV-47


F4U Corsairs and AD Skyraiders off the carrier Boxer (CV 21) pictured in flight off Korea c 1951


An F9F-2 Panther of Fighter Squadron (VF) 721, F4U-4 Corsair of Fighter Squadron (VF) 884, and AD-3 Skyraider of Attack Squadron (VA) 702 pictured in flight over Korea.-1


An F9F-2 Panther of Fighter Squadron (VF) 721, F4U-4 Corsair of Fighter Squadron (VF) 884, and AD-3 Skyraider of Attack Squadron (VA) 702 pictured in flight over Korea.-1

[Ken]

Two different views of A-1H 137524 with the USAF 6th SOS. Oddly enough, Baugher doesn't list this bird. This is the second photo I have of various ground crew with a state flag (here, Pennsylvania) posing with a 6th pilot, it may have been a squadron tradition.

As a footnote, Hukee's book (p.80) lists this aircraft as transferred to the VNAF in Nov 1970 and lost on 6/12/71 with the 530th FS. The fact that so many photo captions in A-1 books end with "lost in combat" is a sobering testament to the story of the sacrifices of Skyraider community.

Ken

[Mark Allen M]

VNAF A-1 at DaNang in March of 1968.


VNAF A-1 taxis out at DaNang in March of 1968. The bomb load appears to be 4 Mk82s and a pair of M117s.

[Snake45]

Now here's an interesting one.

I have several different photos of this particular airplane in this pose, from several angles, in several different books.

Sadly, in none of them is any serial number visible (unusual for Vietnam War Skyraiders).

When this picture appears on Skyraider.org, the SN is given as 132542. Okay.

It's listed in the VNAF Skyraiders at the back of the Mutza book, marked just as shown here, no further details. Okay.

Joe Baugher has it being shot down in USAF service in 1968. Okay, the USAF did operate a few VNAF-spec A-1E/Gs. Pretty rare but just barely possible. (It would have been in standard USAF SEA camo by that time.)

The SN also appears in the Mutza book on the USAF list, with the same 1968 shoot-down details as the Baugher list. (It also starts that entry with a simple "VNAF," implying prior service there.

I don't yet have a photo of 542 in USAF service in my photo database (though I do still have two books to catalog). If I find one, I'll post it here. Until then, I'm skeptical.

[Ken]

(It would have been in standard USAF SEA camo by that time.)

Snake, you have more info than I do, but didn't some VNAF squadrons retain the grey scheme even after camo was the standard?

Ken

[Snake45]

(It would have been in standard USAF SEA camo by that time.)

Snake, you have more info than I do, but didn't some VNAF squadrons retain the grey scheme even after camo was the standard?

Ken

The VNAFs started getting camo in about 1967, and my impression is that they got their warpaint after all the USAF ones in theater did. So it's likely that VNAF was still operating some gray A-1s while most or all USAF ones had been repainted. But if USAF was using that airplane in 1968, it would have been repainted. I've yet to see a USAF A-1 still in gray in 1968, and I'd have to scratch to find one still in gray in 1967.

Camo started showing up on USAF A-1s in theater as early as April 1966. My impression is that by the end of '66, most if not all of them were in camo.

I wish all my pics had dates on them. I also wish Joe Baugher's list had dates of when airplanes left USN and went to USAF or VNAF. About the only dates he has in his list are "death dates."