Warbird Information Exchange

Not sure if you are interested in an original Jumo 004, there was one for sale a while back, but not sure of its status currently, but I am able to find out if required.

Dave

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id be interested in knowing what they go for.. probably quite high though.. like insanely high.. dont think id be willing to pay likely 10x the price of a J85 for equal performance and less reliability

i think the only way id go with a german turbojet though is if i was able to make it myself using new parts, newer materials, and more accurate means of fabricating the parts.. its no secret that certain metals were becoming quite rare throughout germany at the time.. many of their productions suffered and they were looking for ways to make things cheaper and use less metals (hense the volksflugzeug competition)

just asking a question here.. but lets say you had a radial engine, same power output and same displacement as a liquid cooled V engine, both running the same type of fuel.. which is more efficient?.. meaning, which one gets more range?

Or, you could nicely ask Dave to inquire. What if the price is 10x less than a J85? Would that be okay? Sorry for the sarcasm, but if you don't ask, you won't find out.

Mark

Far to many variables. Different engines, systems, and airframes are going to perform differently. Fuel specifics for the engines will be fairly similar.

so, probably not enough of a difference between the radials and the piston aircrafts in terms of fuel economy.. even if the radial gets less fuel economy on the bench, theres less weight to it, therefor it has to work less than the V-12 to keep a plane airborne, so yeah, fuel economy would likely even out i guess.. and i do think radials are some of the simplest aircraft engines produced

Im a big fan of radial and they are not that simple. lots of engineering and parts go into them to make it work. the simple part is the crankshaft compared to a inline. maybe.

yeah, id like to know what they cost, atleast out of curiosity.. i could be wrong

Wolfgang Falch of Sandy Air Corp had one for $199k
GE J85's with out paperwork go for 10-20k, fully certified with the FAA might be in the 100k range or more.

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Andrew King
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well, actually found myself all the information on the J85 turbojet engine.. i think im going to go that route.. however this could be potentially dangerous if not careful.. originally these fighter jets im looking at were designed around 2,000-2,700 pounds of thrust, the J85 turbojet i have the schematics on is the GE-17 which produces 2,850 pounds of thrust..

the jets themselves would end up being lighter than the military models due to no armor or weapons being installed on them.. then you look at the engine many of them were designed for, the HeS 011, weighs roughly 2,100lbs.. the J85 turbojet engine going from the specs producing 2,850 pounds of thrust only weighs around 400lbs.. this means the J85 makes enormous amounts of power in relation to its overall weight when compared to these old german jets.. so recreating one of these jets with the J85 not only had the potential of adding more power than the original engine, but saves 1,700lbs on the overall weight of the engine, plus whatever weight is saved by not adding guns and ammo,

if im not careful with the design that turbojet could easily produce way more power than the craft can handle which means the engine itself will have to be governed to a much lower level of thrust, or im going to have to spend a lot of extra time going over the internal structures of the fuselage and wings to make sure they can handle that extra power which will also likely yield a top speed of well above the 650mph predicted for the original jets

the last issue is that the J85 turbojet is also about 1/4 the size if not smaller in physical dimensions, so id have to make some changes to the fuselage too.. on the plus side though with all that weight saved and the much smaller size means better fuel economy, more fuel, and a much greater range

on the other side, ive also found a substantial amount of info on the HeS 011 and BMW 003, as well as some of their piston engines too.. could be fun to scale down a BF-109 engine and put it in a car

Classic Fighter Industries has already done most of this work for the replica Me262s, including technical documentation on the comparisons between the Jumo 004 and the GE CJ-610s they chose. You will save yourself some time by looking at their documentation.

If you want to remake a Jumo 004, then that is already being done also. But that work is being done in private and it doesn't sound cheap. I would not expect the groups involved in the Jumo rebuild to willingly share much info at this time due to contract restrictions on their work.

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"They done it, they done it, damned if they ain't flew." December 17, 1903

its a tough decision.. historical accuracy vs having something thats all around better.. better range, better efficiency, better performance, better reliability, easier to find parts, cheaper repairs, etc

This got me to wondering..Whatever happened/Where are? all the Jumo 004s that the NASM used to have? Years/decades! ago, they offered some for tade. These days, they no longer do much trading. I still have a listing that shows at least EIGHT of the 004s they had, and there were probably more. I'm guessing that some may have been loaned our for exhibit by other museums, by now, but they may just be sitting, collecting dust, in a warehouse

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Mikael's website documents 33 surviving Jumo 004s worldwide not including those mounted to aircraft, though that number may be out of date. Of those, 12 are located in the US. Nearly half of those 33, around 15, are cut open and sectioned as display exhibits to see the internals.

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"They done it, they done it, damned if they ain't flew." December 17, 1903

well if there were only a few surviving, and the NASM sold a bunch then its possible they sold all they intended to sell, this also means its likely NASM does in fact have a full set of blueprints of the jumo 004 engine which brings up the question that if i was to decide on an engine first, and then decide on an aircraft designed based on its intended engine, which one would be the better engine to shoot for? the jumo 004, BMW 004, or HeS 011?