Possible Paine Field (Everett, WA) Vintage/Warbird Planning

[Sasquatch]

John Sessions, who owns the Historic Flight Foundation (B-25D "Grumpy", P-51C "Impatient Virgin", F7F "Bad Kitty", etc.) hopes to expand the Paine Field vintage and warbird footprint with a "Duxford-like" development:

http://heraldnet.com/article/20140107/N ... age-planes

John's a great guy with a very cool vision...I really hope we can get this going here!

-Tom

[k5083]

Very cool indeed. It won't be a Duxford, any more than the Eiffel Tower in Las Vegas could be the real Eiffel Tower, but it could be very cool.

I love how the article quoted the "Federation Aviation Administration."



"We will not survive this!"

August

[Fight2FlyPhoto]

Can't wait, hope it goes through.

[Rajay]

Saw that story via an AOPA daily newsletter and followed the link to read the original story, too.

With all the discussion about FAA and airport authority planning review and approvals, it just wasn't clear if they were talking about a commercial restoration business, a restoration training facility or "school", or something else entirely?

Maybe I'm missing something, but what is so unique or different about Duxford that they used it as a specific analogy? How is it different from other museums that maintain airworthy and flyable / actively flying warbird collections?

[The Inspector]

John has some sort of tie in with Everett Community Colleges A & P program across the field. They sent some students interested in restoration/preservation over with an instructor, to rebuild the wings on Johns SNJ (now flying) I know They have a T Bird that John wants to put back in the air sometime in the future.
I know the locals would probably settle for an expanded warbird facility instead of commercial service (which we really do need being 75 miles North of SEATAC), you know the type move in, knowing there's an airport that's been there since 1935 and whine about the noise (my advice, go slap the clown you see in the bathroom mirror) the 'my pee-pee hurts' types.
With a steady stream of students who are interested, folks from FHC, sheetmetal wizards at ATS volounteering, and the MoF restoration facility I see no reason why it can't become a roaring success.
If you go to FHC's 'Fly Days' in the Summer, go early so you don't have to walk forever to see the display.

[k5083]

Maybe I'm missing something, but what is so unique or different about Duxford that they used it as a specific analogy? How is it different from other museums that maintain airworthy and flyable / actively flying warbird collections?

Part of it is just the amount of activity. The place has multiple tenant flying collections, multiple restoration shops, three or four major airshows per year.

To get a sense of how much goes on day in and day out at Duxford, browse this thread.
http://forum.keypublishing.com/showthre ... Diary-2013

Paine will never get close to that level of activity and variety unless a lot more planes move in.

The IWM's huge static collection is also very much part of the attraction of Duxford. As is the fact that it is a patch of sod where the real history happened. And location-wise, Duxford is a vintage-friendly waypoint for anyone from the BoB Memorial Flight to an individual Tiger Moth operator en route someplace else, so it gets a lot of drop-in traffic. Paine could become great, maybe even better than Chino, but it will never have those factors.

August

[Mike]

Maybe I'm missing something, but what is so unique or different about Duxford that they used it as a specific analogy? How is it different from other museums that maintain airworthy and flyable / actively flying warbird collections?

Duxford is, and will probably remain, unique in that a major national collection and numerous private restoration shops and collections co-exist on the same site.

I believe that Point Cook did follow a similar model, but evicted most, if not all, of the private operations a while back.

[The Inspector]

Maybe I'm missing something, but what is so unique or different about Duxford that they used it as a specific analogy? How is it different from other museums that maintain airworthy and flyable / actively flying warbird collections?

Part of it is just the amount of activity. The place has multiple tenant flying collections, multiple restoration shops, three or four major airshows per year.

To get a sense of how much goes on day in and day out at Duxford, browse this thread.
http://forum.keypublishing.com/showthre ... Diary-2013

Paine will never get close to that level of activity and variety unless a lot more planes move in.

The IWM's huge static collection is also very much part of the attraction of Duxford. As is the fact that it is a patch of sod where the real history happened. And location-wise, Duxford is a vintage-friendly waypoint for anyone from the BoB Memorial Flight to an individual Tiger Moth operator en route someplace else, so it gets a lot of drop-in traffic. Paine could become great, maybe even better than Chino, but it will never have those factors.

August

You seriously need to get out of Noo Yawk (and please leave your attitude behind), come out here in the Spring through Fall and just hang around KPAE for a couple of days.

[JimH]

atleast the weather is the same. There is only 1 DX....this is where it happened, WWI WWII...there is no comparison. Paine Field is nice. It is a must see for warbird enthusiasts if you are in Seattle but not a destination like Duxford.

jim

Last edited by JimH on Wed Jan 08, 2014 5:57 pm, edited 3 times in total.

[k5083]

You seriously need to get out of Noo Yawk (and please leave your attitude behind), come out here in the Spring through Fall and just hang around KPAE for a couple of days.

Done that several times, it's great, but let's not get delusions of grandeur, Duxford is as close to warbird paradise as it gets right now and PAE is an up and comer but way behind. Check the thread I posted. But my "attitude" remains one of encouragement, the incredible need not be the enemy of the good, I'd love to see PAE level up.

August

[Sasquatch]

Paine will never get close to that level of activity and variety unless a lot more planes move in.

The IWM's huge static collection is also very much part of the attraction of Duxford. As is the fact that it is a patch of sod where the real history happened. August

First, I'd suggest that we "never say never." Duxford has been around a very long time and has had plenty of time to grow into what it is today. Paine Field is only on the cusp of what it may become.

Additionally, and contrary to the statement above, Paine Field is indeed a place "where real history happened". Actually, it's happening every day (at Boeing and other businesses--like Legend Flyers ME-262s, etc.) and has been since long before Boeing began construction of it's 747 factory, now the world-famous wide-body jet factory for 747s, 767s, 777s, and 787s.

But it also has it's own "war history" as America's northwestern aerial defense outpost in both WWII and the Cold War. Planes trained at Paine Air Base for the Pacific, and the war in the Aleutians, and much more. The original Cold War interceptor "alert" hangars are still there and in use today.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paine_Air_Force_Base

http://www.snohomish.org/content/upload ... e-2013.pdf

Who knows what it'll become someday? Like Chino back when it was an ex-CPT program base and pre-scrapping storage facility, who then could have predicted how the warbird movement would transform that place into what is very likely America's premier warbird haven?

And does it really matter if it's "better" or "more authentic", etc. than Duxford?! Or any other place, for that matter? Who cares which is the uber-most super whamodyne warbird nest?! All of them rock! Duxford is its own type of a piece of heaven. So is Chino. And now, so is Paine. They're all amazing chunks of the planet, in my opinion; each with its own special worthiness and characteristics. So pardon me if I don't join this pissing contest. I'm just happy that "a warbird place"--in this particular case: Paine Field--is seeing positive growth and great ideas for a bright future of happy frothy warbird goodness!


Whatever and wherever...enjoy the good news and let's keep 'em flying!

-Tom

[k5083]

I agree. I guess I felt a little stung for getting called out as parochial and by the BOINGBOING head cheerleader of all people, but I do hope PAE overcomes existing obstacles and becomes all of that. As for the history of the field, well, nice try, but to stand on the turf at Duxford and watch 3s and 4s of Hurris and Spits pound down the very turf from which they rose to defend a desperate nation, while part of a crowd many of whose members remember when it meant life and death for their society, is not just a unique warbird experience but one of the most moving things I've ever witnessed. There is no sense trying to aspire to that, PAE can do something different and do it well.

August

[Sasquatch]

I can't disagree with you there August. I've not had that pleasure yet so as you might imagine, visiting Duxford is highest on my list!

And I wouldn't worry too much about ol' Inspector; he's a pretty good guy, I'm sure. Though of course, we're in different corners when it comes to commercial flights out of Paine Field...I'd rather they did that out of Bayview Airport closer to his home to serve his area. So I take pleasure in printing this quote from the Paine Field wiki page...Inspector: don't bite my head off ha ha ha!

On July 15, 2013 Allegiant Air refused the county's terms to operate a terminal at Paine, effectively ending plans for passenger air service from Paine Field.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paine_Field

[Fight2FlyPhoto]

Only at WIX would people find a way to complain about this. Some of you didn't even have to duck, the message zipped right past.

[The Inspector]

I can't disagree with you there August. I've not had that pleasure yet so as you might imagine, visiting Duxford is highest on my list!

And I wouldn't worry too much about ol' Inspector; he's a pretty good guy, I'm sure. Though of course, we're in different corners when it comes to commercial flights out of Paine Field...I'd rather they did that out of Bayview Airport closer to his home to serve his area. So I take pleasure in printing this quote from the Paine Field wiki page...Inspector: don't bite my head off ha ha ha!

On July 15, 2013 Allegiant Air refused the county's terms to operate a terminal at Paine, effectively ending plans for passenger air service from Paine Field.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paine_Field

The County wanted Allegiant to pay for and build a terminal which would then become county property and Alleigent would be allowed to use it until they didn't then it's 'see ya-' with zero compensation. I don't have the room to even attempt to try and explain al the political hanky-panky that goes on around here, but there's more overt and subverted crap than a James Mitchner novel written mirror image in sandskrit.
KBVS is a great SMALL (5800 ft) uncontrolled former Navy outlying field with no place to get a big jet whoaed up without a trip through the Tulip fields.
The demand for better air service comes from Snohomish County so a 35 mile drive North on I-5 would defeat the purpose. KBVS is getting busier now that more corporate types are utilizing the field and Bill Anders museum is moving here after being dumped on by Whatcom County and KBLI in their rush to become LAX North.
I spent a good portion of my working life on KPAE on one end or the other and my ties go back to the 50's, so I get a bit 'hackled up' when someone who really has no idea of all the B.S. drops their 5c.
KPAE in the past has been home to Miss America, Scatterbrained Kid, Ben Halls P-86A, Bill Rogers Miss Ashley and SEAFURY, Bud Granleys outfit, F4U 'BIG HOG' and dozens of 'warbugs'.
After a period where the aiport managers was hostile to wabirds, P.Allen and his money coupled with the 262 project aparently changed some minds and paved the way for John Sessions to open and build his facility.