B24 at China Lake...

Curtis Block · **Posted:** Wed Oct 17, 2007 12:05 am

Echo Range B-29.

35°31'28.13"N 117°10'13.17"W

APG85 · **Posted:** Wed Oct 17, 2007 6:00 am

Why are these planes (hulks) still sitting out there!?! You can't tell me if these were B-17's and not B-29's that the'd still be rotting out in the desert. Even if they are un-restorable, they would make an interesting display (wishful thinking)... :cry:

n5151ts · **Posted:** Wed Oct 17, 2007 7:54 pm

APG85 wrote:

Why are these planes (hulks) still sitting out there!?! You can't tell me if these were B-17's and not B-29's that the'd still be rotting out in the desert. Even if they are un-restorable, they would make an interesting display (wishful thinking)... :cry:

we should get the tree huggers on the gubmint to clean up all this and get the historic saviors to make the gubmeint allow us to reclaim these pieces of history....WE THE PEOPLE sure has lost its meaning.

RMAllnutt · **Posted:** Wed Oct 17, 2007 9:57 pm

muddyboots wrote:

My dig isn't as exciting as all the wrabirds left out tehre, at least to you guys. We're excavating some prehistoric camp sites. So far we have found a lot of detritus, and a number or chopping tools, and I found a rock quarry. Back then the area had more water (it was a lake, after all) and people traveled around the lake, camping and using resources and then moving on. Oh, we have found a bunch of petroglyphs as well. China lake is a smorgasboard for folks like me

What else would a grunt do but become an archeologist? Dah da dum dum da da dah dahdah *cracks whips*

Right there with you Muddyboots... Archeology has always fascinated me too! Keep up the good work. It'd be great to hear more about what you were up to, even if this isn't the forum for it. Happy digging.

All the best,
Richard

Nathan · **Posted:** Fri Dec 27, 2013 8:25 am

Sad. Why is it that I can go out and buy any year and model of Ford Mustang. But when it comes to airplanes, even parts of them, it is off limits. Even if these aircraft no longer serve their current job. Why can't the gov'ment just let people get them/buy them who would care for them? Heck I would take a B-29 hulk. Too many on here seem to think if the airplane is not whole then it is junk. I think within the next few years you will see more museums display aircraft "as is". Since the availability of these airplane as a whole become harder to find. Are you gonna pass by these relics and let someone else get them? I'd be tickled pink just to get a burned out wing of a B-29.

The Inspector · **Posted:** Fri Dec 27, 2013 12:50 pm

Nathan wrote:

Sad. Why is it that I can go out and buy any year and model of Ford Mustang. But when it comes to airplanes, even parts of them, it is off limits. Even if these aircraft no longer serve their current job. Why can't the gov'ment just let people get them/buy them who would care for them? Heck I would take a B-29 hulk. Too many on here seem to think if the airplane is not whole then it is junk. I think within the next few years you will see more museums display aircraft "as is". Since the availability of these airplane as a whole become harder to find. Are you gonna pass by these relics and let someone else get them? I'd be tickled pink just to get a burned out wing of a B-29.

On the other side of the coin, you can pretty much throw an airplane data plate on a hanger floor and say 'start here' and get (with inspections) a legal replica of the Belchfire F-127 you've always desired. but start with a burned out '57 Bel Air body pulled from a swamp, scrounge every part, wear your fingers to the bone fixing and building it and when you go to license it the State Patrol will go over every part (including with a special light to sniff out 'hidden' part serial numbers) and then, maybe grudgingly issue a new, state controlled VIN. It's even more of a P.I.T.A. if you build a bespoke street rod and only use production engines/running gear (ask any hot rod shop in California about cars like the Boydster).

_evan · **Posted:** Fri Dec 27, 2013 2:12 pm

APG85 wrote:

Why are these planes (hulks) still sitting out there!?! You can't tell me if these were B-17's and not B-29's that the'd still be rotting out in the desert. Even if they are un-restorable, they would make an interesting display (wishful thinking)... :cry:

Here's more info on why its still there from another thread

m50a1ontos wrote:

There is ONE, UNO, 1 and ONLY, ONE, UNO, 1, B-29 left. It is NOT available to anybody. No, you may NOT got see it, it's in a restricted area. NO parts are available, to anyone. Even if there were parts, nobody would get any because so many other B-29 parts scroungers bending and outright breaking the rules have ruined any possibility of that ever happening again.

You want to know what happend to 'em all? Go look in your kitched cuboards at all the aluminum pots and pans or that cold frosty beverage you just popped open in that aluminum can.....

Or ask Disney Corp what they did with all the ones THEY took (above what they were suposed to take), Ask the CAF what they took besides FIFI, Ask all the other museums that helped them selves to what ever they wanted back when all that stuff was "just old range junk". Go see the compound that Aero Trader has and you'll find a B-29 and the rest of the B-29 that is still here at China Lake. I could go on but my blood pressure will start to climb.

All the shenanigans that went on here "back in the day" and continued until recently has pretty much screwed the warbird comunity of getting anything from the Military.....especially the Navy ever again....unless you have a dozen or so congress critter's to pass specific legeslation for a particular "thing"....(and completly alienating/p!ssing in the wheaties of who ever has that "thing" in the proscess)....or you have a museum with MAJOR pull at the NHC or CMH....or have the big wheel at the Navy Museum at pepsi-cola in your pocket....

It ain't gonna happen. At least not at China Lake.

m50a1ontos · **Posted:** Fri Dec 27, 2013 3:58 pm

_evan wrote:

APG85 wrote:

Why are these planes (hulks) still sitting out there!?! You can't tell me if these were B-17's and not B-29's that the'd still be rotting out in the desert. Even if they are un-restorable, they would make an interesting display (wishful thinking)... :cry:

Here's more info on why its still there from another thread

m50a1ontos wrote:

There is ONE, UNO, 1 and ONLY, ONE, UNO, 1, B-29 left. It is NOT available to anybody. No, you may NOT got see it, it's in a restricted area. NO parts are available, to anyone. Even if there were parts, nobody would get any because so many other B-29 parts scroungers bending and outright breaking the rules have ruined any possibility of that ever happening again.

You want to know what happend to 'em all? Go look in your kitched cuboards at all the aluminum pots and pans or that cold frosty beverage you just popped open in that aluminum can.....

Or ask Disney Corp what they did with all the ones THEY took (above what they were suposed to take), Ask the CAF what they took besides FIFI, Ask all the other museums that helped them selves to what ever they wanted back when all that stuff was "just old range junk". Go see the compound that Aero Trader has and you'll find a B-29 and the rest of the B-29 that is still here at China Lake. I could go on but my blood pressure will start to climb.

All the shenanigans that went on here "back in the day" and continued until recently has pretty much screwed the warbird comunity of getting anything from the Military.....especially the Navy ever again....unless you have a dozen or so congress critter's to pass specific legeslation for a particular "thing"....(and completly alienating/p!ssing in the wheaties of who ever has that "thing" in the proscess)....or you have a museum with MAJOR pull at the NHC or CMH....or have the big wheel at the Navy Museum at pepsi-cola in your pocket....

It ain't gonna happen. At least not at China Lake.

That looks a bit familiar :lol:

As for those who get all butt hurt over this stuff just sitting there. That's not going to solve anything. You want to do something constructive? Find out which museum has acsess and volunteer there! The museum at China Lake is always looking for help. Step up or shut up.

Brad · **Joined:** Thu Apr 29, 2004 10:30 pm **Posts:** 1131

m50a1ontos wrote:

Ask the CAF what they took besides FIFI, Ask all the other museums that helped them selves to what ever they wanted back when all that stuff was "just old range junk".

I can't speak for anybody else but the CAF was authorized to take everything and all they wanted, including two complete airplanes. I've got all the paperwork from the transaction and nobody in China Lake or anybody else anywhere cared what the CAF took. The only thing anybody cared about was the Air Force not wanting "FIFI" to fly. When the Air Force Chief of Staff, General Ryan, got his nipple in a twist over the CAF not giving up on flying, he shut down any assistance, including spare parts and manuals. This extended to everybody and that's when the whole "the CAF stole everything they could" tales started. In the 80's ALL of the remaining B-29 airframe and on board China Lake were offered to the CAF. I've got the paperwork from when the study was made on how many trucks and train cars would be needed to move it all to Harlingen. Due to the cost and lack of room, the CAF passed on the deal and just took some of the parts that were of use to the B-29/B-24 squadron. Everything else disappeared through other means and during the range clean up.

Chris Brame · **Posted:** Fri Dec 27, 2013 11:47 pm

m50a1ontos wrote:

Well 35°54'17.89"N 117°44'02.18"W could be just Sea Vans....tons of 'em get blown up now as they're cheaper and easier to move than an airplane. 20 footers come in by the truck load and a few placed "just so" can look like wings and a fuselage...and most are oxide red these days. The 40 footer I bought for storage is the same color.

Six years later, the burnt-out SB-29 is still there; the only other a/c in the area is this one (looks like an F-105??), about 2,000 feet NNW of the SB-29 at 35.90306,-117.731007:

Steve Nelson · **Posted:** Sat Dec 28, 2013 6:45 am

Looks like what's left of a Grumman F11F Tiger.

SN

m50a1ontos · **Posted:** Sat Dec 28, 2013 9:41 am

F-11F. It's surviving twin sits near the base museum.

Clifford Bossie · **Posted:** Sat Dec 28, 2013 10:48 am

During the '80 there were a number of F-84F/RF-84F airframes at China Lake. We sure could use some parts for our static restoration!

m50a1ontos · **Posted:** Sat Dec 28, 2013 11:07 am

Clifford Bossie wrote:

During the '80 there were a number of F-84F/RF-84F airframes at China Lake. We sure could use some parts for our static restoration!

I remember those. a few were on Airport Lake, the rest were either near survivability or one of the threat arena's....about 7-8 of 'em all lined up.

There was a pile of F-105's out near SNORT too along with a "TV-1"

It's been a good ten years since I saw 'em last. (had acsess)

RareBear · **Posted:** Sat Dec 28, 2013 3:44 pm

About 9000 feet ESE of the F-11F is what appears to be a wingless A-6 Intruder.

Walt

Warbird Information Exchange

B24 at China Lake...

Who is online