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 Post subject: Ye olde NAvion...
PostPosted: Sun Nov 17, 2013 1:26 pm 
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Location: Cuyama, CA
The Farmer's Warbird, The Poor Man's Warbird, The "Cost Effective" Warbird, The looks kinda like a P-51 but without the horsepower, I have heard them all, but please if you have any to share do!

You know what the NAvion is? The transition airframe from W.W.II military to civilian flying for AAF pilots after the war. It was North American's attempt to capture that market share and keep their design engineers on payroll. The NAvion was (the first?) high-permanence complex aircraft manufactured you could buy domestically. Built to an Army spec with the idea that the Army will buy them as a liaison aircraft, the L-17.

I have been privileged to fly NC91104 for thirteen years. She's almost the way she was born on July 17 1946, serial number six, fifth production at mines field after NA ceased P-51 production. She was the company demonstrator for the NAvion line after the war. Her skin was meant for B-25's. Her panel instruments where meant for P-51's, T-6's and the like.

Here is here logbook entries form the first 200 hours:

The original aircraft logbook for NC91104 was identified as NX91104 and penned over with a "C" at a later date.

Built July 17 1946. First flown as "new" on July 21 1946 by M.J. Woods (A/E cert number 11371) passed as "Functional" after three landings.

Many issues with hydraulics and landing gear after what looks like hundreds of landings with potential customers etc.
September 26 1946 NC91104 did 36 landings!

There are two demonstration pilots M.J. Woods and A.C. Snyder for North American flying NC91104.

November 11 1946 New engine #1014 installed and 100 hour inspection by M.J. Woods.

All flights where at Mines Field (now LAX) until February 23 1947. Then NC91104 went to Burbank, San Francisco, Parker?, Phoenix, Tucson, Prescott, Kingman, Yuma.

May 16 1947 (at 192.05 hours) Engine removed and replaced again with new E-185-3 #2376D which is the same serial number engine NC91104 flies with today.

Here she is: https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set ... 384&type=1

Any NAvion stories out there? pop2

Best,

Jason

------------------------------------------------------------
Vosburgh Airfield, P.O. Box 207, New Cuyama, CA 93254
jason.vosburgh@vosburghairfield.com
Cell: (805) 766-3880

http://www.airnav.com/airport/5CN4

http://www.VosburghAirfield.com


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 Post subject: Re: Ye olde NAvion...
PostPosted: Sun Nov 17, 2013 2:21 pm 
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Location: Johnson City, TN
Love Navions. Used to fly N8616H back in the day. Solid airplanes, good short field, and they'll do a nice aileron roll too.

Steve


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 Post subject: Re: Ye olde NAvion...
PostPosted: Sun Nov 17, 2013 4:02 pm 
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Location: South Boston VA
Here is my Dad's (Joe Gertler) 1947 Navion, N8593H, at Flushing airport, circa mid 1950s. I was too young to recall if it was before, after (or same time as) the Lambert Monocoupe, and the Emigh Trojan he based there. His shop was only a few minutes away, just across the Whitestone bridge, connecting the Bronx and Flushing/Queens. He kept the T-6 (NC49346)and some large military surplus helicopter (gotta go back an look at his old photos..)at some another small airport, North of the city..He also usually had a couple of seaplanes (He favored Luscombes, but also had T-Crafts and Champs and other small seaplanes) based at Carl Evers Boat and Seaplane Marina, in the Bronx.
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 Post subject: Re: Ye olde NAvion...
PostPosted: Mon Nov 18, 2013 10:10 am 
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I am building the Navion page on my site. Just starting to research all the tail numbers to write the captions, but most of the galleries are up. There's 60 or 70 pictured here, but not your 91104.

http://aircraft-in-focus.com/north-amer ... an-navion/

August


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 Post subject: Re: Ye olde NAvion...
PostPosted: Mon Nov 18, 2013 10:27 am 
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Hacker and I have a LOT of hours in ol' N77BH. A true L-17B. Last plane off the Ryan floor in December 1948. It went from the Army to the Civil Air Patrol, and pops bought it directly from them...so it still had the military ID plate. Sure do miss that old girl.

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 Post subject: Re: Ye olde NAvion...
PostPosted: Mon Nov 18, 2013 4:05 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jun 02, 2012 12:58 pm
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Location: Cuyama, CA
k5083,

Feel free to pull any of the pics off of the Facebook postings.

------------------------------------------------------------

I always felt the NAvion was under served. It really is a great plane with enough "character" to make every flight an adventure. One bonus is the side-by-side seating and the relatively low operations cost means you can stay married.

Jason

------------------------------------------------------------
Vosburgh Airfield, P.O. Box 207, New Cuyama, CA 93254
jason.vosburgh@vosburghairfield.com
Cell: (805) 766-3880

www.airnav.com/airport/5CN4

www.VosburghAirfield.com


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 Post subject: Re: Ye olde NAvion...
PostPosted: Tue Nov 19, 2013 9:21 pm 
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Location: Nashville, Tennessee
Ok, I finally got to fly a Navion this month, N5437K. a 1951 Ryan with 260 hp. One more flight and the checkout should be complete. I have a BIG question; who designed this aircraft?
The Navion has a similiar shaped pointy tail, sliding canopy, and straight leading edge and gear doors as a P-51H, Mustang which I think first flew in 1943 or 44. The Navion flew in early 1946.
Okay I have flown the SNJ-3 and T-6D, the TF-51D, and P-51D, and the T-28. There is virtually nothing in common with how the aircraft flies to one of N.A.A.'s wartime products.
Did they buy the design from someone like AL Mooney , Lloyd Stearman, or Meyers and "doll it up" to look like a Mustang". Its a lot of fun, but was heavy on the ailerons.


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 Post subject: Re: Ye olde NAvion...
PostPosted: Wed Nov 20, 2013 10:08 am 
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Posts: 671
Navion Folks:

Nice thread & pics! I may have to dig for some samples in the Midwest c. 1990s. One in particular with complete metal scheme! OAFB c. 1990s. I'd like to see the instrument panel P-51!

Tks


Last edited by zorro9 on Wed Nov 20, 2013 9:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Ye olde NAvion...
PostPosted: Wed Nov 20, 2013 10:36 am 
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Posts: 369
Location: Corona, CA
Navion N4615K (NAV-4-1615) has been disassembled and donated to Planes of Fame Air Museum in Chino. Aircraft will be used for parts in the restoration of the POF Navion (N91161 NAV-4-216).


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 Post subject: Re: Ye olde NAvion...
PostPosted: Wed Nov 20, 2013 11:15 am 
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Location: Cuyama, CA
Marine Air,

Here's something I wrote up for the CAF SoCal Wing way back when.

Now that I’m leading the charge on grant funding for our wing, I have time to talk about something I really like – NAvions! Yes NAvion with a capital "NA", I’ll get back to that in a minute. First lets talk about WWII and aviation. Contracts handed out by the Government in the war years to produce a myriad of aircraft were plentiful. Less than two weeks after the hostilities ended with Japan, which was a surprise for aircraft manufacturers because of the atomic bomb ended it rather abruptly, almost all aircraft orders were cancelled. In mid 1945 North American Aviation had over 31,000 contractual airframes to build for the good old USA. After the Japanese surrendered the orders dropped to fewer than 30 airframes. That’s right 30! The story goes the CEO of North American Aircraft slammed a Sears catalog on the conference table in front of all the execs and stated: "I can’t think of a darn thing to build, a dishwasher, pans what?" In desperation one of the engineering execs said: "What about an airplane?" and so the NAvion was born! From pencil on paper to a flying aircraft took less than 90 days. Some sacrifices were made to produce the NAvion, the leading sacrifice being profit. The airframe costs $9000 to manufacture and had a sales price of $7000. NAA wanted to keep the best aeronautical engineers on staff and that’s how they did it. Later they would produce the F-86 and make back the money they lost. The idea with the NAvion from a marketing standpoint is that all these guys coming out of the newly formed Air Force after the war would want to continue flying back home. They would love their NAA aircraft so much pilots would purchase a NAvion to share with the wife and kids. It kinda looks like a P-51 for dads. Even the name is a conglomeration of North American aViatION. The Army put in an order for several hundred, the specs for the airframe were in large part dictated by the Army. So things should be fine right? Wrong, in 1946 the Army dropped it’s order and almost all the pilots coming home didn’t want to share what they had been through with anybody. NAA began a campaign to market the NAvion to the general public. That’s where my plane comes in. Fourth production N91103, and six production N91105 NAvions flew around the country to promote the plane. My plane, our ramp queen, fifth production N91104 stayed at Mines Field (LAX) and served as the company demonstrator for potential buyers, sometimes twelve a day. The plane was flown on many such flights by RJ Woods, the chief designer of the P-39. The NAvion was the first production high-performance-complex aircraft ever offered for sale to the US public. 91104 came to life July 17th 1946. The thing I love about the bird is that it’s almost all original. Same engine (E-185-3), same panel, same almost everything. The skins were intended for B-25’s that never got built, the instruments are meant for T-6’s and P-51’s that never got built. I love it. Anyway NAA sold off the rights to build Navions (they dropped the "A") when Korea needed those F-86’s and the Army did refill it’s order later on, as L-17’s, also used in Korea. 91104 is now over 60 years old. I wonder who will be puttering around the sky in her 60 years from now? :D

------------------------------------------------------------
Vosburgh Airfield, P.O. Box 207, New Cuyama, CA 93254
jason.vosburgh@vosburghairfield.com
Cell: (805) 766-3880

www.airnav.com/airport/5CN4

www.VosburghAirfield.com


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 Post subject: Re: Ye olde NAvion...
PostPosted: Wed Nov 20, 2013 5:38 pm 
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Cindy wrote:
Navion N4615K (NAV-4-1615) has been disassembled and donated to Planes of Fame Air Museum in Chino. Aircraft will be used for parts in the restoration of the POF Navion (N91161 NAV-4-216).


Cindy, I have an original negative of N91161 taken in the early 1960s. Can send you a better scan if the museum wants to use it.

Image

August


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 Post subject: Re: Ye olde NAvion...
PostPosted: Wed Nov 20, 2013 6:13 pm 
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Location: Cuyama, CA
Funny story. (sort of)

See those three cover plates aft of the canopy. Those are flare tubes. The Army spec for the L-17 said it must have emergency flares for location spotting in the event of an emergency landing. The pilot can fire them one at a time from a cockpit control by his (or her) left knee. The story goes a Navion belly-landed in the California desert, fired off a flare, and started the world's worst brushfire. :( So an AD came out to remove the flares and cover the holes.

------------------------------------------------------------
Vosburgh Airfield, P.O. Box 207, New Cuyama, CA 93254
jason.vosburgh@vosburghairfield.com
Cell: (805) 766-3880

http://www.airnav.com/airport/5CN4

http://www.VosburghAirfield.com


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 Post subject: Re: Ye olde NAvion...
PostPosted: Wed Nov 20, 2013 10:01 pm 
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Navion9104:

Interesting thread of a rare aircraft! Will you plz post a pic of the cockpit & the NA ID plate in the cockpit. Tks.


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 Post subject: Re: Ye olde NAvion...
PostPosted: Thu Nov 21, 2013 12:45 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jun 02, 2012 12:58 pm
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Location: Cuyama, CA
Zorro9,

Thank You for your interest. :D

I have to figure out how to post on this site. In the meantime I have gobs of pics on FaceBook. You don't have to sign up to view. I will also take a picture of the ID plate in the cockpit. Somebody moved it from the tail to inside the plane so it wouldn't be stolen!

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Professo ... 0422199384

Also the Navion album: https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set ... 384&type=1

Best,

Jason

------------------------------------------------------------
Vosburgh Airfield, P.O. Box 207, New Cuyama, CA 93254
jason.vosburgh@vosburghairfield.com
Cell: (805) 766-3880

www.airnav.com/airport/5CN4

www.VosburghAirfield.com


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 Post subject: Re: Ye olde NAvion...
PostPosted: Thu Nov 21, 2013 12:52 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jun 02, 2012 12:58 pm
Posts: 87
Location: Cuyama, CA
Do other Wixer's have a neat NAvion pic they would like to share? (or two, or three)

There has to be more great NAvion stories out there... pop2

------------------------------------------------------------
Vosburgh Airfield, P.O. Box 207, New Cuyama, CA 93254
jason.vosburgh@vosburghairfield.com
Cell: (805) 766-3880

http://www.airnav.com/airport/5CN4

http://www.VosburghAirfield.com


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