Warbird Information Exchange

.... or not!! ... interesting never the less (I think)



link here

http://capturingcapacity.com/2012/10/24 ... y-jackson/

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“Knowing what’s right, doesn’t mean much unless you do what’s right.”

Of course just so you know this is a prime example of the study of art as the artist clearly is either "anti" or "pro" in his presentation. I don't see much in the way of a neutral presentation but unless you have a chance to question the artist personally one must make his/her own conclusions. (as most art is mean't to be actually) Whether you approve of his use of what we all pursue as our passion is subject for debate, but even though I may have some reservations if in fact that is a real B-29 nose, I have to certainly give the artist credit for an interesting crafted piece of art. Of course this is my opinion only. Others I'm sure (especially here on WIX) most certainly have differing opinions. Fire away!!!

BTW the title of his presentation is “Everything Leads to Another”, Jackson delves into issues of human potential, history, and the future" ... so it could be taken as suggestions that the first dropping of the Atomic Bomb on human beings most likely will lead to another, or maybe he suggests by using the words "human potential, history and the future" just the opposite. Hmmm! too heavy perhaps?

What! no art connoisseurs?

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“Knowing what’s right, doesn’t mean much unless you do what’s right.”

Here's another observation (IMHO only). What your looking at above may just be a look into the future of warbirds. Yah! I know those are fightin words for some of you people, but I'm quite certain warbirds will eventually cease to fly, maybe not in most or our lifetimes (hopefully) but I'm convinced it will happen for a multitude of reasons, some obvious, some not so much, but as we should know all things must come to an end eventually correct? Now I can certainly envision full warbird displays continuing in museums, but I also can envision displays such as the photo above (viewed more as art than owning a warbird per say). I can certainly see examples of very highly polished pieces of a warbird on display in private homes, albeit wealthy homes the size of the photo above. I'm not opposed to seeing this type of use for warbirds down the road, maybe not to the extent of the artists example above, but some sort of legitimate and tasteful public or private display. I'd like to think I'm wrong in my assertion on the future of warbirds ... but!!!

I'd also like to think I'm not having a conversation with myself right now ... but!!!

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“Knowing what’s right, doesn’t mean much unless you do what’s right.”

Where'd this guy get the B-29 nose to do this with?

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Life member, 91st BG Memorial Association
Owner, 1944 Willys MB #366014
Former REMF (US Army, O3)

I like it! A cool piece of art that is functional! Too bad more noses where not saved.

That's the nose section from Universal Studios that was in "Above and Beyond" circa 1954, "Wild Blue Yonder," and "Enola Gay," that later went to Taigh Ramey in Stockton, Calif. Taigh sold it to the artist and AeroTrader at Chino prepared it for the trip overseas. They may have done some restoration work to it as well. Also, I think AeroTrader "sectioned" the nose so it would fit into a shipping container.

The serial number is 42-65401. I think there was a thread on Taigh driving it down to Chino.

Very cool to see the photos of the nose section now. Thanks for posting them.
Nick

Interesting display. Shiny, too! I've always thought the B-29 was a fine piece of artwork anyway. While I dread the time when all warbirds are permanently grounded (and I do agree with you on that eventuality, Mark) I certainly believe that part of a warbird saved is infinitely better than it being scrapped.

Of course, I've recently finished drinking about half a bottle of wine, so I may just be typing gibberish right now.

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Dean Hemphill, K5DH
Port Charlotte, Florida

I'll converse with you on this, and agree it will be interesting to see what the future holds. I think relevancy to the majority of the public will be a major factor, and once they loose a connection to the artifact interest drops off noticeably to a smaller crowd of enthusiasts. I think the major connection is to something that was "cool" in their youth, or to their family (that was my first car/boat/airplane, or my dad/uncle/grandfather flew/drove/fought with that). Once that connection is lost, interest dimminishes.

Some examples for my hypothesis:
-The market for classic, as delivered, cars like the model T and model A has dropped way off. Perhaps the market has passed. Few people today remembers seeing these beiong driven or desired them growing up.
-Trains. Fewer youth have even ridden a train, especially in the USA. Few have ever ridden or seen a steam locomotive. Are train enthusiasts a dying breed?
- USS OLYMPIA, SS UNITED STATES. Both rotting away in Philadelphia. A few have stong emmotions about the historical significance of these vessel, but the general public can not relate to them- or they just look like old ships. Few can relate to a family member that fought/sailed on them.
- Cars in general. People still seem to appreciate the car that was "cool" in their youth. Many have to wait until they are in their 40's or so to have the luxury of having the cool second/weekend car and thay can finally afford the car they always wanted. I still crave the cars of my youth, and no reason to believe this will change. So the "classic" market will be ~30 years behind the current year.
- Airshows. When I grew up (I'm 45 now) just the planes were enough, and current jets and warbirds were what I wanted and I knew all about them. I could care less about what else was there. At many shows today the emphasis seems to be on bringing families to the event, and the ramp space is full of inflatable jumpers, bungee rides, music stations blaring their music (I'd rather hear a merlin).
- Pop culture. My youth included Baa Baa Black sheep, Top Gun, Magnum PI, etc all with strong aviation connections. Today not so much.
- Airliners. They all look the same to the public, and the nostalgia was lost ago when the sweatpants crowd replaced the suit and tie traveler, and the bag of peanuts replaced the "meal". A few very passionate airliner folks, but are they being replenished?

Please nothing of the above is to detract from enthusiasts, I have seem some great passionate people about all sorts of stuff and that passion is great. And I hope I don't come across as an old f@rt, just wanted to comment on Mark's posting.

Since we're playing the "crystal ball" game, here's my take:

I think there will always be some degree of enthusiasm and a market for flying warbirds. What's going to change is you're going to see two branches: Planes that are basically stock / original will be flown less and less, while the increasing availability of CAD/CAM - 3D printing technology will allow for the machining of new and replacement parts to keep other birds in the air, as well as making full-on replicas easier to build.

I think there are parallels to the vintage car world. There are cars that are restored meticulously to concourse quality using original or new old stock parts. Then you have cars like my '69 Austin Healey Sprite. It's never going to win any prizes, and it has a number of reproduction parts on it (and still a lot original, too). This car wasn't meant to be shown, it was meant to be driven (and can be driven hard) without worrying about hurting the vehicles value.

This is exactly how my father and I view our 1942 MB / GPW. Since this shot was taken, we've added most of the markings, and some other details. Still need to swap the transmission. A lot of parts are reproduction, while being mixed with NOS. The point is… it looks great, mostly authentic, and a blast to drive.

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Keep Em' Flying,
Christopher Soltis
Dedicated to the preservation and education of The Sikorsky Memorial Airport

CASC Blog Page: http://ctair-space.blogspot.com/
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Chicks Dig Warbirds.......right?

This Saturday I went to see a concert by Joshua Bell. He's currently one of America's top violinists, and his instrument (and really the co-star of his show) is his Strad, which is celebrating its 300th birthday this year, and for which he paid about $4 million.

To draw a parallel, it was like watching Bob Hoover fly a P-51, except it was 5 times as old as a P-51, about twice as valuable, and it was just a one-pound piece of wood.

And despite the age and irrelevance of the instrument, a goodly number of folks were willing to pay handsomely to watch and hear it.

My point here, if I have one, is that age and irrelevance are socially constructed. In 300 more years, I'm not sure if any P-51s will still be flying, but I'd bet that 600-year-old Strads will still be playing. If P-51s are still flying, perhaps it will be because they will then be like Strads - the preferred choice of great artists, because they are still the best tools for the job, if the job is making audiences go "Wow." Nothing newer has the presence, the quality and the mystique, and it's likely that nothing ever will have. I have no difficulty imagining a P-51 or Spitfire being the aircraft of choice among the great aerobatic pilots of 2313, even though I can't begin to imagine anything else about what 2313 will be like.

August

Well I guess you could take a look at a few difference scenarios regarding the future of flyable warbirds. (of which we have discussed here in the past) I agree that the technology to produce flyable warbirds will certainly be more advanced than today. Should be anyway. But perhaps 300 years from now the interest will be more towards the types from the jet eras (or whatever propelling systems being used) eras a hundred or two hundred years out than WW2 types, like todays interests are more toward the WW2 types vs. WW1 types. You can look at the WW1 types as somewhat of an example of this today. If I recall (and I can certainly could be way wrong here) but there are no surviving original WW1 types flying today. I'm sure someone will correct me there if that's not a true statement. So I'm sure you can draw your own conclusions as to why we see very few solely WW1 airshows with original types let alone replicas. I know there's a few shows around but indeed very few. Which is sad because the WW1 types always have been interesting and entertaining to watch fly. Bottom line is the future of warbirds as we know them will most likely have a whole new look and feel than they do today, whether for the better or worse is yet be seen.

Of course 300 years from now the world as we know it may no longer be one floating planet in the solar system but perhaps several pieces floating In different directions. ha! Armageddon, doom and gloom!

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“Knowing what’s right, doesn’t mean much unless you do what’s right.”

I see mention of the early Ford stuff often in regards to the collector question. Other cars of their era (high end stuff to be sure) still seem to be very popular and valuable. I'd suspect even 30-50 years from now a Duesenburg or Cord will still be highly sought after. One sold at auction recently for 2.4 million. For some of this stuff I think the sky is the limit, I can only imagine how valuable a perfectly restored P-51 will be 20 years from now, or a Panther tank for that matter.

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Always looking for WW2 Half-Tracks and Parts.

There are a few original WWI aircraft flying. Several Jennies, a Camel in California, an S.E.5a, Pup and one or two Bristol F.2bs in the UK, come to mind for me.

Though special to see, it is more because they still creak into the air than because of what they can still do. If we're talking about performances, very few pilots in the world really wring out a WWI type, even a modernized replica. Even at Oshkosh I've never seen a full aerobatic routine in a WWI type, though I can't swear there's never been one there. They're marginal airplanes for that type of flying. They're not the best plane for any job.

I'm suggesting that if there are still such things as airshows in 300 years, and if a hot aerobatic pilot could look back on all of aviation history and order up any type to impress the crowds with his routine, it is imaginable to me that he would pick a WWII fighter as having the best combination of qualities. By no means inevitable, but imaginable. It would make a nice heritage flight with the F-243 Spacehawk, as well.

August

Holy crap! That is the B-29 the Taigh used to own? 42-65401! What happened to all of the parts that were inside? I have had a hell of a time (and $) trying to find all of the stuff that goes back into "The Big Time Operator" restoration and this guy guts 42-65401 to make it an art project? It does look cool....but OMG!

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Thanks,
Van
Kosovo, Afghanistan (x2) and Iraq Campaign Veteran
B-29 42-24791 "Big Time Operator"
C-47A 43-15137 "7H" Normandy/Holland Vet
SNJ-5B S/N 84947
UC-45F 43-35764 Cockpit
PT-26A 42-71104
LNE-1 S/N 31556
CG-15A Cockpit
CG-4A Cockpit (x2) and fuselage
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