We had MiGs, did the Soviets have F4s?

[Stephan Wilkinson]

I'm reading an interesting book, "Red Eagles," about all of the program that used aggressor squadrons and real Soviet aircraft--a variety of MiGs and Sukhois acquired from defectors as well as such countries as Israel, Iran and Indonesia--to train U. S. pilots in Soviet ACM capabilities, and it made me wonder: Did the Soviets ever have anything similar? Did they have captured or crashed and rebuilt F4s and A-4Ds and F-105s that they used to train their pilots to fly against them in combat? I've never heard anything to suggest that they did...but does anybody know better?

[JohnB]

I don't think any F-105s or F-4s in Vietnam came down in one piece. With A-4s, by the time any made it to very small countries in S. America where I suppose one could "slip through the cracks" in exchange for a bribe, they were awfully old (and early models).

But we know that they did have F-5Es (then the standard small country fighter/attack aircraft and fairly advanced for its time) after the fall of South Vietnam. One is now in a Polish museum.

They also had access to F-86s & T-33s flown to China by defecting Nationalist pilots...I don't know if they got anything newer (F-100s, 101s, 104s).

Anyone know if Iran gave them any F-4s or F-14s?

[Stephan Wilkinson]

I remember seeing a bunch of brand-new F-14s parked at Davis-Monthan that had been bound for Iran but never delivered, and I thought they were all of the "Iranian" Tomcats. But I may well be wrong and others had been delivered earlier.

[ErrolC]

I'm reading an interesting book, "Red Eagles," about all of the program that used aggressor squadrons and real Soviet aircraft...

By the way, the author of one of the books with "Red Eagles" in the title, Gaillard R. Peck, gave a lecture at the USAF Museum. He knows how to tell a story! Available at
http://www.nationalmuseum.af.mil/podcasts/lecture.asp

[JFS61]

I remember seeing a bunch of brand-new F-14s parked at Davis-Monthan that had been bound for Iran but never delivered, and I thought they were all of the "Iranian" Tomcats. But I may well be wrong and others had been delivered earlier.

The Iranians received 79 F-14A's prior to the fall of the Shah. How many are truly operational is anyone's guess, as those early Pratt & Whtitney equipped birds were a handful even when new and properly maintained.

[Zachary]

I'm reading an interesting book, "Red Eagles," about all of the program that used aggressor squadrons and real Soviet aircraft...

By the way, the author of one of the books with "Red Eagles" in the title, Gaillard R. Peck, gave a lecture at the USAF Museum. He knows how to tell a story! Available at
http://www.nationalmuseum.af.mil/podcasts/lecture.asp

We were able to interview Col. Peck for EAA's Timeless Voices program last year. VERY interesting guy!

http://bcove.me/z4oq6j9x

Zack

[Stephan Wilkinson]

The book I'm reading is "Red Eagles: America's Secret MiGs," by Steve Davies.

[Zachary]

Here is Col. Peck's book:

http://www.randomhouse.com/book/218520/ ... -r-peck-jr

[CH2Tdriver]

I remember seeing a bunch of brand-new F-14s parked at Davis-Monthan that had been bound for Iran but never delivered, and I thought they were all of the "Iranian" Tomcats. But I may well be wrong and others had been delivered earlier.

The Shah purchased 80 Tomcats from Grumman. The company had an entire infrastructure setup in Iran as many Gummanites and their families moved there in order to train the IIAF personnel, as it was such a lucrative contract. When things started going south they all got out. 79 Tomcats were delivered straight from Calverton with the 80th on the flight line in test when the Shah fell. It eventually was purchased by the Navy. The lone 80th example may have been at DM for a stint, but all the others were delivered directly. You may have seen some of the Tomcats that spent time as Agressor birds at Fallon. Some of them took on the Iran camo scheme IIRC.

As for Red Stars on an F-4, the only one I ever saw was on one from the HI ANG for an old Magnum PI episode "Did You See the Sunrise?" about a Soviet pilot who defected to HI. It featured recycled footage from The Great Santini, but the landing shot included 3 of the HI ANG's birds. Two in ADC gray and then this SEA example. It's on Youtube and the scene is at the beginning.

[AirJimL2]

They had something F-4 shaped...

http://www.pprune.org/military-aircrew/520932-soviets-flying-captured-us-aircraft.html

http://thelexicans.wordpress.com/2013/07/30/western-aircraft-in-the-ussr/

Jim

[John Dupre]

I have long since forgotten where or how I heard it but years ago I asked this same question and was told that the Soviets had a program to build up a single F-4 from wreckage recovered in S. E. Asia. The aircraft was never intended to be flown but was assembled in order to study the F-4 and its systems. Seems plausible but I have never seen any confirmation of it.

[tom d. friedman]

john what a great avatar pic you have!!

[dors]

the Russians sure did have F-4s. Didn't you see Iron Eagle 2?

[Tiger Tim]

But we know that they did have F-5Es... One is now in a Polish museum.

The rest were destroyed in run ins with Maverick and Iceman.

-Tim

[donno21]

Haven't visited the site for a LONG while, but interesting to see questions about Soviet programs similar to "Constant Peg". As the #2 Maintenance Guru for the 4477th, I had the extreme pleasure of working for Gail Peck. I have also spoken with Steve Davies a time or two and answered some questions he had. We (Maintenance) had heard rumors about Soviet operated F-4's, but never confirmed anything. Had a Hell of a good time building up MiG's.