Warbird Painters need some advice

L-4Pilot · **Joined:** Tue Jan 18, 2011 10:35 pm **Posts:** 616

We are experiencing some issues spraying our Air Tech top coats on the O-58A. The color coats come to us with the "flat" binder which is as flat as Air Tech can make the single stage Polyurethane but it is still a dull gloss when no additional flattener is added.

We have attempted to further flatten the paint with every commercial flattener available and the paint is spraying flat when done in a single pass on small parts, but when the gun turns to make the second pass to blend the pattern on large areas we are getting gloss out where millage increases regardless of how much flattener is added. The more millage the more glossy the paint becomes.

My painter has painted three award winning aircraft for me over the past 20 years and is the best aircraft painter I have ever seen, and has vast experience shooting both flat and gloss paints, fabric and metal aircraft.

The Air Tech paint formula today is different that it was back in the 90's when it could be flattened easily with powdered talc.

Is it possible to alter the normal spray technique to produce the same flat look we are getting on a single light coat pass?

The Air Tech STC is thru the primer coat and we are investigating alternative top coats but have not been successful in coming up with a single stage full flat, flexible polyurethane.

Any advice would be appreciated.

Steve

paul smith · **Posted:** Tue Sep 17, 2013 12:04 pm

Steve, I've had very good luck with Poly Tone. Never a problem with their flattener, other than having to keep stirring it during application. Put in as much flattener as you want. I've never heard of it being applied by itself as a separate coat, however.

Obergrafeter · **Posted:** Tue Sep 17, 2013 1:31 pm

Don't know what else is compatible, but I don't like the Air Tech finish products at all. Will never use them again, I will use another process or find a finish coat that is compatible.

ZRX61 · **Joined:** Tue Jun 14, 2005 10:16 am **Posts:** 2308

Have a google for Hotrod Flatz line of paint... or maybe use some flat clearcoat over what you have?

L-4Pilot · **Joined:** Tue Jan 18, 2011 10:35 pm **Posts:** 616

Thanks guys,

Air Tech and Poly Fiber are both excellent products and give good service. I have used both over the years and they both work well. My painter prefers to shoot Air Tech as he does a lot of agriculture and banner tow aircraft and found it the toughest of the two and the least man hours to finish. I like the Air Tech glue and primer better than Polyfiber but Polyfiber also has advantages over Air Tech especially now since the new Air Tech formulations make it difficult to use on Warbird aircraft.

We talked with some very smart and experienced people today who have done a lot of fabric work over the years and my painter thinks he has a fix for the problem. We plan to shoot the rudder tomorrow after a test sample and if all goes well I will post a photo tomorrow evening. One thing is for sure the aircraft has to be a flat finish any gloss is not acceptable.

Steve

L-4Pilot · **Joined:** Tue Jan 18, 2011 10:35 pm **Posts:** 616

Obergrafeter wrote:

Don't know what else is compatible, but I don't like the Air Tech finish products at all. Will never use them again, I will use another process or find a finish coat that is compatible.

I agree, this is the last time I will ever consider using an Air Tech top coat, love the primer but the high gloss mirror finish just does not suit most of my restorations. Nothing looks worse on a vintage or warbird aircraft than gloss paint.

L-4Pilot · **Joined:** Tue Jan 18, 2011 10:35 pm **Posts:** 616

Problem solved, we are now getting a gloss equivalent to newly sprayed dope. Very happy with the way it worked out. 73 years ago our plane received her Army uniform at the factory, this week 73 years later we are putting her back in her Olive Drab. She has not flown since 1953 and languished in a state of disrepair all of those years. If aircraft have feelings she must be a pretty happy old girl right now.

Photos taken in shade and bright sunlight look like different colors but the color is dark Olive Drab #41. More brown than the later ANA 613.

Enemy Ace · **Posted:** Wed Sep 18, 2013 11:30 pm

Please remember that what ever you do you are spraying polyurethane, the whole reason why polyurethane paint exists is because it was formulated to have the "wet look"... i.e. glossy finish. This keeps the plane looking shiney as well as making it very easy to keep clean since the smooth surface does not allow dirt to settle into microscopic valleys in the paint.
The base engineering behind the paint is to make it smooth and glossy. Your plane was originally painted with a enamel based paint. Enamel paints are almost impossible to find and did not have a long service life on fabric airplanes anyway because the paint would begin to crack and flake off after a few years. What makes a surface shiney or dull is the amount of light that reflects from the surface, the smoother the surface the shinier it is. Very lightly rubbing your plane with ultra fine scotchbrite should help dull the shine and give you a matt finish.

ZRX61 · **Joined:** Tue Jun 14, 2005 10:16 am **Posts:** 2308

Centari without the catalyst dries flat.

L-4Pilot · **Joined:** Tue Jan 18, 2011 10:35 pm **Posts:** 616

Thanks Guys for the comments. We are shooting a PPG Urethane that comes with the flattener already in it and we are using their permanent flex agent. This is the mil spec paint they supply Tyndall AFB. They had a Olive Drab but it was not close enough in color.

They were able to match the early 1940/1941 Neutral Gray #43 and Olive Drab #41 for us.

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