Warbird Information Exchange

I'm out of the country working so my wife took the kids to Oshkosh without me. They went to a book signing that Kermit held. My daughters, 8 and 10 were thrilled to meet a children's book author. My wife is not an aviation person, but had the kids picture taken with Kermit. They had a thrilled look on their face as did Mr. Weeks.
So, I would trust his judgement that he is working on something exciting that will connect with more people on a much broader scale.
It may be a theme park that teaches kids how birds fly, ducks float, eagles dive, and what they see from their vantage point, and lets them get the wind in their faces and feel the same thrill Kermit does when he flies a really neat airplane.

The only reason my 7 year old tolerates museums (any museum) is that we save the gift shop visit until the end when he can look at the toys. People like me are always a captive audience at an air museum. I'll go out of my way, inconveniencing myself and my poor family and coworkers (on business trips) to go look at planes.

On the other hand, people will spend nearly $100 a person to go to an amusement park. If Fantasy of Flight can capture that crowd, it will be a revolution rather than an evolution. Kermit Weeks will make a large fortune out of a small fortune rather than vice versa.

Our museum director was at that mutual concerns meeting - its true of museums with aircraft - no one is 'making' money. Sadly Jerry Yegan is a prime example of that - he had one of the greatest collections ever - but it was subsidized via other business projects and not by museum guests. This is a issue we are trying to address in Wendover (slowly albeit) by laying a foundation for businesses to be involved in a bigger complex of the museum. For example, in the WWII officers club we are planning on a 40's 50's era style diner. The business will help generate income and a nn-aviation interest in the area. Hopefully this will bring people in that would otherwise not stop at all.

Tom P.

Wendover and FOF cannot be compared. Been to both. At wendover you have a ghost town where the B-29 crews trained to go tto the Pacific and drop Nuclear Bombs on highly populated areas. ITs a fascinating archeological timepiece. May I suggest "Ghost tours" like they do in Charleston, S.C. and old abandoned forts?
At Fantasy of Flight you have an immensely bright, talented, and financially capable airplane fanatic that wants to connect the dots with how he feels and what captures his fascination, and the average persone whom has only flown on airlines and didnt particularly enjoy the experience.
He already has a world class collection especially from a collector's view point. If you go to Oshkosh next year, go by the IKON tent and check out their new LSA amphib airplane. Fly their SIm and sit in their demonstrator. You will leaving wanting more, and to buy one, even if you aren't a pilot.
That's the kind of excitement he wants to generate. Dolly Pardon opened a theme park in her home town of Gatlinburg called "Dollywood." It's theme is her music and all things Appalachian. Don't laugh, she is now one of the wealthiest self made millionaires in the U.S.

Marine air,

Good point - I did not mean to compare FoF to Wendover - I am just saying that a lot of beautifully restored aircraft (flying or not) are not enough anymore to stay financially afloat. Just like your example of "Dollywood" you have to create more excitement that the 'average' person can connect to. As I pointed out, a great collection of aircraft are not enough to bring people in. To keep the doors open the Air & Space museum's budget request in 2012 was $861M - even with all the money they raise - and none of those vehicles will ever fly again!

Here in Wendover we could take $5 million and go one of two routes. One is to restore a bunch of buildings and get a few great aircraft and it still might not make it. The smarter route would be to take that same money and restore a building or two, get a plane or two then use the rest to do what Dolly Parton did - create something that is related but has a much broader appeal to bring people in and spend money so we could keep getting aircraft and telling the WWII Army Air Corps story. To keep open and telling the stories museums want to, we need to think critically of how we are operating and what we can do to remain around to preserve history.

Tom P.

This has been a long running issue with most aircraft Museums for years and if anyone can figure it out Kermit will.
We all agree that todays generations need much more to stimulate interest than a bunch of non flying aircraft that are sitting in was is pretty much an aircraft morgue.
Thinking outside the box , I would love to see these Museums adapt the same approach that some of the old 1800's Military Forts use.
They restore the Fort , hire personnel to dress in period costumes to interact with the public. Soldiers re-enacting drills ,
firing of guns and cannons etc
Couldn't this happen with some of the retired airbase type Museums
Imagine and aircraft doing blank firing drills as if the guns were being sighted( period dressed pilot in the cockpit) , mechanics working on an aircarft, run ups . taxing , scrambles etc , WASPS marching , Big Band concerts etc
They could even set up the eating facilities to simulate a WW2 Mess Hall complete with cooks etc in fatiques

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...it was a plane adrift beneath the moon moving serenely thru beams like an angel of the night .....fair as a song ........aloof from mortal dreams

Although, it has had ups & downs since his passing, Cole Palen's Old Rhinebeck Aerodrome has grown since 1960 to the living aviation history museum still entertaining and informing the public. With their biplane rides, flying displays, theme weekends, auto & engine demos, vintage fashion shows, and slapstick skits, ORA allows one to at least imagine a time of early aviation.
http://www.oldrhinebeck.org/
Go to their FB page to see many of thier latest news items:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/oldrhinebeckaerodrome/
As fleet16b has suggested, this formula could be copied elsewhere to present other flying eras. With the successful Reading WWII reinactments for WIXers, possibly smaller scale fulltime activities focussing on a specific time, place or group with aircraft as the backdrop might bear fruit.

EXACTLY!!!!

Cole Palens approach was excellent.
Not sure how people rate todays version of the show but one of my regrets in life in not actually going to Rhinebeck
while Mr Palen was alive

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...it was a plane adrift beneath the moon moving serenely thru beams like an angel of the night .....fair as a song ........aloof from mortal dreams

The best way to make a million dollars from an airplane museum is to start with 10 million first.

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Always looking for WW2 Half-Tracks and Parts.

There was such a place in Northern Idaho, the late, lamented Henly aerodrome north of Coeur d'Alene. it did a pretty good imitation of Old Rhinebeck with WWI replicas and a mini-airshow every weekend....complete with dog fights and a "flying farmer" routine..as well as neat buildings and a restaurant on the fight line.
I got my first biplane ride there in a Tiger Moth as well as a J-3 flight. In the 80s, one hangar burned down and the owner lost a Mustang. The owner turned the place into a amusement park, which has grown enormously and is very successful. I don't know if the runway is still there...because the man who built the replicas had a house w/hangar on the west side of the property.

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Remember the vets, the wonderful planes they flew and their sacrifices for a future many of them did not live to see.
Note political free signature.
I figure if you wanted my opinion on items unrelated to this forum, you'd ask for it.

Here's the history of the Henley airport: http://www.airfields-freeman.com/ID/Air ... htm#henley
Google Earth shows the runway to be pretty much intact and in good shape.

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All right, Mister Dorfmann, start pullin'!
Pilot: "Flap switch works hard in down position."
Mechanic: "Flap switch checked OK. Pilot needs more P.T." - Flight report, TB-17G 42-102875 (Hobbs AAF)

While I support Kermit in everything he does, airplane-wise, and I respect his vision, I'm not sure I see anything in his background to suggest that he can plan and execute a sustainable business venture. Other warbird collectors (Allen, Yagen, Clyman, Collings, Potter, to name a few) do have this type of background, but none has produced a viable business plan for incorporating airworthy warbirds into a financially sustainable tourism operation. Some have tried and given up, others accepted from the outset that their collection is a money pit.

I like the comments about the old forts here (although, aren't they just money pits for the government?) and I can envision an immersive, when-you-walk-through-the-gate-you-step-back-in-time environment along the lines of Colonial Williamsburg or Greenfield Village that might work. But the trick to making it work would be to dispense almost entirely with real airplanes and a functioning airport. Those elements probably wouldn't contribute enough to the visitor experience to justify the cost. Instead, picture a simulated WWII airfield, with everyone in period kit doing things the old way, populated by mockups or static aircraft, maybe some taxiable. In the summer, the roles would be acted by money-starved college kids (who are actually age-appropriate!). Events would take place on a daily schedule; visitors could see nose art being painted on the same plane each day, the same repair being done on a (mock/junk) engine every day, scheduled mission briefings and air raids, a scheduled engine run-up (using an operable but not necessarily airworthy engine in a static or mockup-up airplane) every day. Using mocked-up airplanes rather than real, you can increase the immersiveness by having the number and type you really want; e.g. your jungle airstrip can have a whole row of P-39s and A-20s, rather than the one-of-each-type miscellany that collectors of real planes inevitably end up with. A lot of possibilities open up.

There's no reason the person who starts an operation like that has to be a warbird collector. If a warbird collector wants to graft one onto his warbird collecting habit; fine. He should just view the warbird operation as a separate thing (money pit) from his cool theme park (possibly profitable).

August

I have visited FOF and came away impressed.I think Mr.Weeks gets it.The latest generation has fewer moms and dads who grew up in aviation. Their kids go to see the Disney movies,the latest based on airplanes and go bananas .....They want more.
We used to fly into Rhinebeck once a year with the Moth club.One year the Sunday show got rained out and Cole Palen gave us a personal tour of his museum.One of the best weekends ever.

Two similar Aviation destinations on a different scale.



Tiger Moth

Interesting reading:

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/200 ... e-airplane