THUNDER OVER MICHIGAN 2013

[Boeing666]

Jeff, and others volunteered their time in the Photo Pit at Thunder for all three days. They were on the job before sunrise and remained on duty well into the early evening.

He personally travelled 400 miles roundtrip at his own expense, which included gas, meals and hotel, and it was all for the love of the event.

The show always needs volunteers, so I suggest you and a few others should try it. You will see things in a much different light.

As for paying full gate prices on show days, that was completely unnecessary, as there was 4 separate occasions you could have purchased reduced advance tickets.

I believe the price last December was in the region of $18.00.

It was a very good show, great actually when compared to the many shows who just gave up and folded their tent!

Cheers,

Tom Walsh.

Point taken, I commend Jeff and everyone else who had a hand in this show, but I still don't accept any censure from him.
I'm not personally complaining about prices, I was only responding to his contention that I'm a deadbeat who just sits in his sun shelter all day long watching a free show, I had well over $100 into it, I'm glad you guys got it and I hope the gate receipts and concession profits are put to good use.
I do think, though I'm not in a position to know for sure, that a point of diminishing returns is being reached with the prices. Lower them a bit, it stands to reason more people will be attracted from Ecorse. I think over $25 per head is the point where people start thinking ,, Wait a minute, just paid my cell phone bill, just spent $150 on groceries, paid a $125 cable bill and spent $100 just this week feeding gas to my truck ,,, Can I really afford this luxury and pay to bake out in the sun half the day, or should I just sit out at the edge of the airport and watch it for free ?
Over $10 for parking too I think is excessive and counter productive ,,, And cheaper advance prices are not much of a factor for most folks, I don't think many plan months in advance for something like this, its the spur of the moment, looking for something to do on the weekend crowd that is going to make or break any show, attendance of aircraft enthusiasts like us is a given.
The $5 water bottles is simply insulting, a 2,000% profit could be made selling them $1 each, as you can get a case of 24 for $2, probably cheaper by the truckload.
$2 is high but still within reason, $3 is the point where people start feeling insulted, $5 is just ludicrous, an obvious case of gouging an audience who has already paid some decent $$ to get in the gate for a vital commodity. I remember when we had that power outage some years back, some stores started jacking up their prices for water like that, and some got arrested for gouging, there is a reason why practices like that are frowned on at best, and illegal at worse.

$5 isn't going to break me or most anyone else, neither is $20, $50 or $100, its principle, people do not like getting raked, simple.
I think it would be better to offer them for free, with a request of a donation which almost everyone would give a buck for, and some more. You'd still make a profit, and not leave anyone feeling abused for being raked.

As for the water, you can buy a 24 pack at Walgreens for $3-5. I carried 6 bottles in my camera bag and I showed the guy when I entered and told him I had water and he let me bring the water in. They can NOT deny people the right to bring their own water as people need water especially if it was a show like 2011 when it was close to 100 degrees. I always bring my own water.

[CH2Tdriver]

As for the water, you can buy a 24 pack at Walgreens for $3-5. I carried 6 bottles in my camera bag and I showed the guy when I entered and told him I had water and he let me bring the water in. They can NOT deny people the right to bring their own water as people need water especially if it was a show like 2011 when it was close to 100 degrees. I always bring my own water.[/quote]

Um...yes they CAN. I had my water confiscated at the Florida Int'l Airshow in Punta Gorda during the security search. It too was in my camera bag and hot that day. They didn't care. They said drink it or chuck it. It was frozen solid as I planned on it melting and I'd have cold water later that day, so I told her enjoy it. She flipped it in the trash in front of me. Yes hydrating in the sun for 9 hours is critical, and ANY show forcing people to pay $5 for it is gouging no question. I don't know what TOM's policy was about outside drinks but you may have gotten lucky with a sympathetic volunteer who didn't feel like busting your you know what. I didnt feel like arguing with the woman in my case, as standing in the tent behind her was a local LEO standing with his thumbs in his gun holster.

When I went this year I sneaked in two of the small 8oz bottles in the pockets of my cargo shorts. Around me anyone with drinks other than baby bottles was told it was not allowed in. Although people sipping coffee or lattees were not bothered. Which means it was not a security concern but a money thing.

[K5DH]

The annual Fort Worth Alliance air show does not permit any kind of food or drinks to be brought in (other than baby food and formula). A few of years ago, I had a bottle of water tucked in one of the outside pockets of my camera bag. The gate attendant told me to either guzzle it now or dump it now, before I could pass. Knowing that the air show provides free water inside (from spigots on water tank trucks), I asked if I could bring in the empty bottle to refill. She had no problem with that. So, I drank as much of my water as I could stand and poured the rest on the ground, and she waved me in with my empty bottle. Now, I carry an empty bottle with me and just fill it with water once I'm inside.

The funny thing is that once they spotted the bottle of water, they somehow got distracted and neglected to search my camera bag!

Obviously this has little to do with the TOM discussion. Or maybe it does. I dunno. Never mind.

[Roger Cain]

Thanks for the reply Tom, I wasn't complaining, just wondering if I had missed any pictures. I'm fully aware of mechanicals, weather and issues at air shows. The Wings Over Wine Country show yesterday had ten or eleven Mustangs to fly in the show along with two Sea Furies and a P-40. Unfortunately Julie Clarks pyro's set three serious fires on the field, that called for two helos with bambi buckets and an S-2T tracker, along with lots of ground crew to contain it. By the time it was squelched, the fighters got scratched from the show so the last couple of performers could fly Sadly for me, I couldn't go back today.

[Xray]

Jeff, and others volunteered their time in the Photo Pit at Thunder for all three days. They were on the job before sunrise and remained on duty well into the early evening.

He personally travelled 400 miles roundtrip at his own expense, which included gas, meals and hotel, and it was all for the love of the event.

The show always needs volunteers, so I suggest you and a few others should try it. You will see things in a much different light.

As for paying full gate prices on show days, that was completely unnecessary, as there was 4 separate occasions you could have purchased reduced advance tickets.

I believe the price last December was in the region of $18.00.

It was a very good show, great actually when compared to the many shows who just gave up and folded their tent!

Cheers,

Tom Walsh.

Point taken, I commend Jeff and everyone else who had a hand in this show, but I still don't accept any censure from him.
I'm not personally complaining about prices, I was only responding to his contention that I'm a deadbeat who just sits in his sun shelter all day long watching a free show, I had well over $100 into it, I'm glad you guys got it and I hope the gate receipts and concession profits are put to good use.
I do think, though I'm not in a position to know for sure, that a point of diminishing returns is being reached with the prices. Lower them a bit, it stands to reason more people will be attracted from Ecorse. I think over $25 per head is the point where people start thinking ,, Wait a minute, just paid my cell phone bill, just spent $150 on groceries, paid a $125 cable bill and spent $100 just this week feeding gas to my truck ,,, Can I really afford this luxury and pay to bake out in the sun half the day, or should I just sit out at the edge of the airport and watch it for free ?
Over $10 for parking too I think is excessive and counter productive ,,, And cheaper advance prices are not much of a factor for most folks, I don't think many plan months in advance for something like this, its the spur of the moment, looking for something to do on the weekend crowd that is going to make or break any show, attendance of aircraft enthusiasts like us is a given.
The $5 water bottles is simply insulting, a 2,000% profit could be made selling them $1 each, as you can get a case of 24 for $2, probably cheaper by the truckload.
$2 is high but still within reason, $3 is the point where people start feeling insulted, $5 is just ludicrous, an obvious case of gouging an audience who has already paid some decent $$ to get in the gate for a vital commodity. I remember when we had that power outage some years back, some stores started jacking up their prices for water like that, and some got arrested for gouging, there is a reason why practices like that are frowned on at best, and illegal at worse.

$5 isn't going to break me or most anyone else, neither is $20, $50 or $100, its principle, people do not like getting raked, simple.
I think it would be better to offer them for free, with a request of a donation which almost everyone would give a buck for, and some more. You'd still make a profit, and not leave anyone feeling abused for being raked.

As for the water, you can buy a 24 pack at Walgreens for $3-5. I carried 6 bottles in my camera bag and I showed the guy when I entered and told him I had water and he let me bring the water in. They can NOT deny people the right to bring their own water as people need water especially if it was a show like 2011 when it was close to 100 degrees. I always bring my own water.

Cheaper than that, I've seen it $2 a case ,, I have a top of the line purifier, I prefer to bring my own frozen, but as pointed out, they won't allow frozen water, and sometimes won't allow water period. I guess they consider a frozen water bottle a possible projectile of mass destruction or something. I already had a load with binocs, scanners, blanket, sun screen ect, had a total of 5 people including kids so I figured lugging in water was not much of an option, so I had to submit to the gouging as intended ,,, I'm pretty sure thats the reason why kids are free, as they know good and well that they will be sucking down a steady supply of water, ice cream and hot dogs/nachos.
I don't know, it is what it is, everyone tries to dig their fingers as deeply in your pocket as they can these days, leaves me with a bad feeling even though in the scheme of things it wasn't all that much. If this keeps up I'll just buy tickets for a day for support and not even go in.

[Boeing666]

Airshows that ban people from bringing in their own water and that don't provide free water are setting themselves up for a lawsuit. My father is in a wheelchair, totally parlyzed and needs liquids or he gets heat stroke even in low 80s. He got heat exhaustion at Thunder 2005 and had to see the EMTs and my mom brought in water for him as it was.

The only show I ever saw provide free water was Dayton with their "water buffalos" taht would frequenly run out of water. I didn't see any free water provided at Thunder. I was able to bring water in at military shows like MacDill, Jacksonville and Selfridge without a problem, they just searched the camera bag and said it was fine. Most places shouldn't expect you to not bring in water unless they provide it for free. I have never been denied water at a show. They tried to deny my father his water at the Florida State Fair though, but we argued long enough that the lady said "Ok I am going to pretend I didn't see it, go on in"

What happens if it is 95 degrees with humidity, they don't allow you to bring in water and then don't provide it either but they are selling it for $5 a 20 ounce bottle? On a hot day at a 6 hour show, each person is probably going to need to drink a bottle an hour. That is $30 a person, Xray has a family of 5 so he is supposed to spend $150. Now lets say someone gets heat stroke and dies and if the family gets a lawyer that finds out that they were denied bringing in water, no free water was provided and they were charging $5 a bottle on a 95 degree day. That airshow could be up for a major lawsuit where all that so called profit they made off the water bottles will now be paying that lawsuit

[Xray]

I remember the good old days when people used to use wagons to bring in tents, coolers, even barbecue grills. We never went that far, but made do just fine with a blanket and cooler packed with water, pop and lunch meat.
Those days are gone, never to return ,,, I think what started out as a legitimate security concern in the wake of 9/11 has morphed into an impossible to resist opportunity to rake people at will for essential commodities ... It really wouldn't surprise me a bit if they started charging $5 a head to use their porta potties.
At first after 9/11 they didn't ban coolers but everything was subject to inspection, you could roll in with a cooler so long as it was inspected, at least at the shows I attended. After a couple of years they argued that held things up too much, and so issued a blanket ban on coolers, and that set them up to be H2O gods, and it didn't take them long to take advantage of it.
We made do with a bottle each at the show, drank plenty before & after, but that was with mid 70's, much hotter and we would certainly have needed more. Kids supplemented that with pop and ice cream, but of course that is not whats needed to properly keep a body hydrated on a hot day, only water will suffice. BTW I did see an older guy passed out on the tarmac on SAT, pretty tough to look at. His legs were twitching and looked to be going into shock, but I have no idea if lack of fluids was a factor.
I think all shows would have to do is argue "homeland security" and they would get an easy pass on any possible litigation concerning their water policy.

[Rob W]

A little late to the party; school's back on.

A few meager offerings from me:

[Rob W]

Seeing the YAM's C-47 was one of the highlights of the show for me!

[Rob W]

Not much to say about the magnificent Mustang...

[Rob W]

The Skyhawk. One of THE coolest jet warbirds in existence in my opinion.

[Rob W]

Dave Folk and his Corsair darting through cruddy skies during the World War II "parade."

[Rob W]

"Georgie's Gal" flies in front of an afternoon buildup.

[ZRX61]

On the subject of water:
Friend of mine was doing his first track day at Willow Springs in Rosamond several years ago. He doesn't live in the desert. About 4pm he says "I've drank 13 bottles of water today & haven't peed once".
That would be kinda spendy at $5/bottle. Luckily you can bring your own & you don't get searched, which also means you can bring firearms, alcohol & pyro (altho they have a sign prohibiting hunting)
Last airshow I attended a friend had shown up earlier in the week & parked his 3 axle 5th wheel behind one of the hangars just past the end of the crowd line. That didn't get searched as no one knew it was there.