THUNDER OVER MICHIGAN 2013

[Warbirdnerd]

The gang at FenceCheck have lots of photos up. They start on page 17 of this thread...
http://www.fencecheck.com/forums/index. ... 4.240.html

[ktst97]

Passed the airport during the show twice about an hour or so apart and nothing was in the air either time.

That comment from a person who thought Topeka's event should have been named Trainers and Transports ??


I attended both Topeka and T. O. M. and will attend both again.

Personally, I'd rather see much flying, like many transports (including a formation of 3, with paratroopers jumping), some trainers, three bombers, a P-51 making many flights, and a F7F Tigercat, etc.

The Yankee Air Museum was hung out to dry by sequestration, hence what was most plentiful at T.O.M. was too much "dead air"

[Warbird Kid]

The sequestration thing shouldn't matter (In my opinion) because it should be a primarily Warbird related show, which it is. But could be more so, so they don't have to rely on the military for much. But that doesn't seem to bring in the "Big Attendance Numbers" like the Blue Angels or Thunderbirds. Ugh...

[Jeff H]

Warbirds cost big money to get. I was inside for all three days of the show and the number of freeloaders sitting out on Ecourse Road was simply staggering. It is even more troubling to me that some Ecourse Rd. sitters are regulars here on WIX and openly boast about so even stating what vehicle they drive and that they will be popping tents to make their free show more comfortable. Shame on you all. You show up here on WIX I assume because you enjoy aircraft and warbirds in particular but you won't financially help them or the show.

I am NOT alone in this. I spoke to a large number of regulars in the photo pit area who witnessed the same thing and they are all of the same opinion.

Cheers,

Jeff

[Xray]

Warbirds cost big money to get. I was inside for all three days of the show and the number of freeloaders sitting out on Ecourse Road was simply staggering. It is even more troubling to me that some Ecourse Rd. sitters are regulars here on WIX and openly boast about so even stating what vehicle they drive and that they will be popping tents to make their free show more comfortable. Shame on you all. You show up here on WIX I assume because you enjoy aircraft and warbirds in particular but you won't financially help them or the show.

I am NOT alone in this. I spoke to a large number of regulars in the photo pit area who witnessed the same thing and they are all of the same opinion.

Cheers,

Jeff

I personally went in SAT just for support, I think they are rapidly pricing themselves out of existence with $35 ticket, $15 parking, $5 for a bottle of water ect. I want them to make a profit but that is getting close to rape, certainly price gouging when you are in a situation that you can't bring in a cooler but have to have water, they are taking advantage, pure and simple.
I had 3 kids with me along with a girlfriend, ended up spending well over $50 just on water/hot dogs/ice cream ,,, And I even bought a $5 show program I didn't want or need just for support, so I accept no censure from someone like you up on a high horse, who no doubt had access to free water and snacks and a nice big shade tent in the pit - Oh yeah, what a shyster I am for not wanting to pay burn myself to a crisp sitting out in the sun for 3 days, what a welch !
I don't blame people a bit for watching outside the base, shows the interest is there but the cost for an average family is just getting too high. I encourage people to support for at least 1 day either by going in the gate or donation, beyond that is just asking too much.

[TOM WALSH]

Jeff, and others volunteered their time in the Photo Pit at Thunder for all three days. They were on the job before sunrise and remained on duty well into the early evening.

He personally travelled 400 miles roundtrip at his own expense, which included gas, meals and hotel, and it was all for the love of the event.

The show always needs volunteers, so I suggest you and a few others should try it. You will see things in a much different light.

As for paying full gate prices on show days, that was completely unnecessary, as there was 4 separate occasions you could have purchased reduced advance tickets.

I believe the price last December was in the region of $18.00.

It was a very good show, great actually when compared to the many shows who just gave up and folded their tent!

Cheers,

Tom Walsh.

[Rob W]

As for paying full gate prices on show days, that was completely unnecessary, as there was 4 separate occasions you could have purchased reduced advance tickets.

I believe the price last December was in the region of $18.00.

Tom,

So what happens when it storms Friday through Sunday? I've always had a very hard time predicting what the weather in August...or wait, was it June?...is going to be like when tickets go on sale in December.

It was a very good show, great actually when compared to the many shows who just gave up and folded their tent!

Was it really? How does this show compare to the B-17 gathering a few years back? Or how about the shows during Thunder's humble beginning in the early/mid 2000s?

Tom, listen to what we (the paying public...) are telling you! Deadtime between flying acts. Nothing too horribly exciting compared to previous years. Horrendously high admission/concession prices. Listening to Rob Reider blither on and on and on and on and trip over sentence upon sentence upon sentence for hours on end? We're paying good money for this "entertainment" and this is what we get?

I must give a lot of credit to the Thunder crew for working through the hardships that they faced with the events surrounding the sequester and the issues that are unfolding at the Military Aviation Museum. They put on a safe airshow, which is obviously highly important. Moreover, the flying was exceptional. The Legacy Flight was splendid, the Heritage Flight was, well, there were three North American products in the sky and in the same vicinity of one another on Saturday. The World War II parade of aircraft was masterfully executed and seeing the C-47 flown with panache was probably the highlight of the entire parade. Hats off to that crew, I've never seen a C-47 look so good!

Thunder did a lot of things right this year. They got way more right than they did wrong. But for $35/head and $15/car, people will be expecting more next year compared to what we got this year.

Hopefully the crew that organizes Thunder is listening, because if you expect people to come out and spend good money on your event again, you're going to have to put together a pretty impressive lineup...leagues ahead of what was displayed this year.

[Xray]

Jeff, and others volunteered their time in the Photo Pit at Thunder for all three days. They were on the job before sunrise and remained on duty well into the early evening.

He personally travelled 400 miles roundtrip at his own expense, which included gas, meals and hotel, and it was all for the love of the event.

The show always needs volunteers, so I suggest you and a few others should try it. You will see things in a much different light.

As for paying full gate prices on show days, that was completely unnecessary, as there was 4 separate occasions you could have purchased reduced advance tickets.

I believe the price last December was in the region of $18.00.

It was a very good show, great actually when compared to the many shows who just gave up and folded their tent!

Cheers,

Tom Walsh.

Point taken, I commend Jeff and everyone else who had a hand in this show, but I still don't accept any censure from him.
I'm not personally complaining about prices, I was only responding to his contention that I'm a deadbeat who just sits in his sun shelter all day long watching a free show, I had well over $100 into it, I'm glad you guys got it and I hope the gate receipts and concession profits are put to good use.
I do think, though I'm not in a position to know for sure, that a point of diminishing returns is being reached with the prices. Lower them a bit, it stands to reason more people will be attracted from Ecorse. I think over $25 per head is the point where people start thinking ,, Wait a minute, just paid my cell phone bill, just spent $150 on groceries, paid a $125 cable bill and spent $100 just this week feeding gas to my truck ,,, Can I really afford this luxury and pay to bake out in the sun half the day, or should I just sit out at the edge of the airport and watch it for free ?
Over $10 for parking too I think is excessive and counter productive ,,, And cheaper advance prices are not much of a factor for most folks, I don't think many plan months in advance for something like this, its the spur of the moment, looking for something to do on the weekend crowd that is going to make or break any show, attendance of aircraft enthusiasts like us is a given.
The $5 water bottles is simply insulting, a 2,000% profit could be made selling them $1 each, as you can get a case of 24 for $2, probably cheaper by the truckload.
$2 is high but still within reason, $3 is the point where people start feeling insulted, $5 is just ludicrous, an obvious case of gouging an audience who has already paid some decent $$ to get in the gate for a vital commodity. I remember when we had that power outage some years back, some stores started jacking up their prices for water like that, and some got arrested for gouging, there is a reason why practices like that are frowned on at best, and illegal at worse.

$5 isn't going to break me or most anyone else, neither is $20, $50 or $100, its principle, people do not like getting raked, simple.
I think it would be better to offer them for free, with a request of a donation which almost everyone would give a buck for, and some more. You'd still make a profit, and not leave anyone feeling abused for being raked.

[Roger Cain]

Just a side note XRAY, it was 10 years ago yesterday when that big power outage hit. I was out from Calif, had visited the YAM museum a couple days after the air show, and bam, on what should have been a two hour drive back to the in-laws, I found myself stuck in a gridlocked Detroit. Took almost five hours to get back to Yale.

As for the $5 water, don't visit the music concerts or ball games out here, an average bottle of water will run you $8 and a beer as much as $12-15 bucks.

[AIRIC]

Due to a move and lack of Internet access I’m a little late for the party. Some images from TOM 2013























More images here http://www.airic.ca/html/tom2013.html

All I want to say is the airshow industry is hurting right now. We all need to support local airshows the best we can. Hats off to the TOM crew for not canceling the show like so many other airshows this year. Hopefully we will see another TOM in 2014.

Eric

[Roger Cain]

nice pictures Eric, thanks for sharing with those of us that couldn't make it this year. Looks like they had four Skyraiders in attendance?

[bdsmith337]

I think Rob W. took the words right out of my mouth. Working on a military base, they are already talking about another sequester next year if Washington cant get a budget passed. With that being fairly well known, lets start by planning 2014's show totally non-dependent on the military teams, cut out the Rob Reider, Michael Goulian crap, and plan the best WARBIRD airshow again from the start. Personally, my favorite years were 2008 and the B-17 gatherings of 05 and 11. After this year, that's what thunder needs again.

[TOM WALSH]

Roger,

Four of the six Skyraiders showed. One was water-logged in Missouri and the other suffered the same fate in Tennessee.

They both tried everything to safely get to the show but couldn't.

When you hold an outdoor event, like an air show, there are so many variables you have no control over.

Cheers,

TomWalsh.

[Warbird Kid]

When you hold an outdoor event, like an air show, there are so many variables you have no control over.

That's quite right, which means we should be constructing..... INDOOR AIRPORTS!

I'll let that crazy visual sink in.....



In all seriousness.... Tom I hope the show proved successful for you guys and I hope your THAT much closer to saving a portion of the Ford Plant so you guys have a coherent, singular location. Ya know...seems kind of similar compared to our struggle.

Trying to create an air museum in a former WWII Aircraft Factory, designed by Albert Kahn.
Trying to tell the story of the factory workers in a large factory like diorama / vignette.
Limited funding as always! But I think you guys are a little farther along than us at the moment... Keep up the good work!

[Boeing666]

Warbirds cost big money to get. I was inside for all three days of the show and the number of freeloaders sitting out on Ecourse Road was simply staggering. It is even more troubling to me that some Ecourse Rd. sitters are regulars here on WIX and openly boast about so even stating what vehicle they drive and that they will be popping tents to make their free show more comfortable. Shame on you all. You show up here on WIX I assume because you enjoy aircraft and warbirds in particular but you won't financially help them or the show.

I am NOT alone in this. I spoke to a large number of regulars in the photo pit area who witnessed the same thing and they are all of the same opinion.

Cheers,

Jeff

Some of us aren't rich like you that can afford to spend $50 a day just to get into the show let alone buy food, drinks, souvenirs, program etc.

I always support the show by going in on Saturday. I spend money on the tickets, spend money to park and yes it cost $50 to get in. I know warbirds cost money to bring and I respect that, but this is the most expensive airshow I think I have been to on admission alone. I spent $35 + $5 parking at Sun N Fun and spend $20 at Titusville Warbird show total. i bought $15 worth of food, bought a program, bought some souvenirs and I bought a $425 ride on the Yankee Lady while up here, so I think I can be allowed to sit on Ecorse Rd Sunday without being called a criminal.

As a photographer you also want to be with the sun. Usually when the best stuff goes up at Thunder, which is towards the end of the show - like the B-17 parade in 2010, the Harrier last year, the Vietnam stuff, WWII parade and Heritage flight this year the pictures are backlit due to the show facing west. I can move with the sun on Ecorse Rd through out the day so nothing is backlit.

95% of people just go to the show one day, so if I went inside Saturday, what is the harm of me being on Ecorse Sunday?

As for Friday arrivals day, I tried that once in 2006 from inside the show grounds. Everything was landing on 23L, which was too far for my 300mm lens and after 1pm it started getting backlit. I went out to Ecorse after the grounds closed at 5pm and got myself better pictures out there. I have been doing the Friday arrivals outside the show since. I heard complaints that until this year the planes didn't even taxi by the crowd on Friday. The only way I would want to go in for arrivals day is if I knew there were going to be strong west winds and everything was going to use Runway 27.