Warbird Information Exchange

Curious.......

For example: If one wanted to book a C-131 to come to an airshow, what available ones are there? I know the caf has one but it probably hasn't flown in years. What happens if such an aircraft like the CAF's C-131 or MAAM's Neptune that used to fly circuit but no longer does would such an organization do if an aircraft like that got asked to come to a show? What would an organization do if they got offered $ to bring an aircraft to a show that they had but hadn't been flown in years??? Are there any recent examples of this happening?

Thanks,
Nate

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If it absolutely doesn't need to be a military marked airplane, there should be a local area freight dog feeder that operates CONVAIRS, but they are getting scarce as discarded feeder liner turboprops like BANDERANTES take over. Are you ready to foot the bill for several hundred gallons of 100LL and lots of oil?

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An aircraft that hasn't flown in years, has most likely been out of annual for years. The amount of labor needed to annual a large aircraft (C-131, P2V) plus the costs of any repairs needed would probably far out weigh the income for a single airshow appearance.
Now if that same aircraft was annualed and booked for 20 or 30 airshows in a season, then that organization would only loose some money as opposed to a lot of money.

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They would probably require what would amount to a restoration in some cases.
Why did they stop operating it in the 1st place? Costs, engine or engines require overhaul or repair? Corrosion?
If that was then you would require repairing what was bad and also the inactive systems may require overhaul or inspection/repair to return to service. Also other issues such as corrosion may have set in.
Paperwork may have to be redone with the FAA and possibly there would be more restrictions involved now.
Anyway it would be a mega dollar investment and also a major amount of time. Such as in the P2V they utilize mostly volunteer labor at MAAM so it could be many years to return something to operation. And then the weather or a part breaking could render your efforts null and void if that one weekend you want it for is washed out or something breaks on the trip to the show.
On the plus side it could all work out. You never know.

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Rich Palmer

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The CAF doesn't have one and hasn't for several years.




If you have the money to ask for such things to happen then I would bet that any organization would be happy to help. If the airplane was capable of being returned to the air at an agreed price then that is what it would cost. That cost would include paying for any inspections, repairs, parts and maintenance required to get the airplane airworthy again. It would also cost whatever it takes to get a crew trained, current and qualified. Then you have fuel for the trip and whatever the appearance fee would be. Any organization would love a deal like this because that sets them up to continue operation for other appearances since somebody else paid for the work they might not have been able to do themselves.

A recent example could be the Tillimook museum. Very few of their airplanes have been flying on a regular basis in the last several years but now as they get them ready for the big move to Madras they are getting more of them in the air. I'm guessing they are paying for it themselves but other airshows might benefit from it being done.

You would have to contact each operator and have them make a bid to come to the show. Anyone operating one should be able to tell you the operating cost per hour.

I agree, if something is out of annual it will probably be too expensive. Even in annual it will probably be too expensive!

First, unless owned by a very rich owner who has money and time to spend, almost all aircraft at airshows (minus active military) are paid to be there in some form. Also, these planes are under an actual paper contract to do so. It's not just like they show up and get paid( in most cases)

It varies from air show to air show and the way we do it might not be the same as some other operator... But the way we do it is we have a set appearance fee for our aircraft. This fee varies for each show depending on what they want us for. We typically only do static display, but that more or less is the decision of the air show, not because we won't fly in the show. The appearance fee is different for a single day show and two or more day shows.

This appearance fee is the only money we recieve from the show and is only a fraction of the cost of us being there. We use this money pretty much do nothing but to fund the operation of our aircraft and to help our other restoration projects along if they are temporaly cash strapped.

Now in addition to the appearance fee, the show provides us with the fuel and oil to fly there and back, hotel rooms and rental car if we will be staying over night one or more days. However, these expenses are paid for by the show itself.

Now with that being said, if a plane has not flown in years, a single show will not be able to afford the aircraft in any way. It takes us a couple of shows a year just to break even on the insurance. After that we are above our break even point and are putting money away for future MX needs.

I don't believe there is any plane out there that would cause an air show to spend as much as it would likely cost to bring the plane back into the air from whatever reason it was grounded. Now movies or TV shows are completely different and have done just what your asking, paying to return them into the air.

I have no statistics to back this up, but my guess on what's keeping aircraft that are otherwise airworthy grounded are issues with engines. An engine may cost anywhere from 30-100 grand or more.


I think the number of Convairs left in the air is very small. Their landing gear are life limited, even with overhauls, and the spares stockpiles have dwindled very low. At least so I have been told.

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Tyler Pinkerton
Active Member of Air Heritage Inc. of Beaver Falls, PA.
Aircraft: C47B, C-123K, Fairchild F-24, Funk Model B, L-21B, T-28B, T-34B
Static: F-4C Phantom II, F-15A, T-3 Provost

FWIW.....There is one at the Pueblo Museum. The bio says it was flown there from D-M AFB. I know some of the "Colorado Coasties" who worked on it. I don't know (1) what it would take to get her back to airworthy status and (2) if the museum would even consider it. But anyway....figure'd I'd throw it out there to chew on.

A flying P2V in original (or close) Navy form would be so awesome. But yes, it would be financially limiting although with the current lack of military aircraft at shows it might be more profitable now than in the recent past.

Tom P.