"Return to Normandy: 2014" - New Geneseo Mission!

WallyB · **Posted:** Thu Jun 06, 2013 1:31 pm

43 days?

AHancock51 · **Posted:** Thu Jun 06, 2013 2:21 pm

WallyB wrote:

43 days?

Maximum allowed for our project!

p51 · **Posted:** Thu Jun 06, 2013 4:49 pm

Richard W. wrote:

Would be a fine tribute to TCC if you can fly over Normandy, but I wish the costumed "paratroopers" wouldn't do their stunt.

Why?

Richard W. · **Posted:** Fri Jun 07, 2013 5:35 pm

p51 wrote:

Richard W. wrote:

Would be a fine tribute to TCC if you can fly over Normandy, but I wish the costumed "paratroopers" wouldn't do their stunt.

Why?

You've been around here long enough to know that reenacting has been debated before, but since you asked I'll tell you.

It's my sincere belief that the grown men playing dress-up in costumes do nothing to honor the memory of real soldiers.

I believe that reenacting trivializes the actual people and events, and the guys involved with it are there because it appeals to their vanity. I can't be the only one who's noticed that they invariably want to "represent" elite units, like the US Army Airborne.

p51 · **Posted:** Fri Jun 07, 2013 9:42 pm

Richard W. wrote:

It's my sincere belief that the grown men playing dress-up in costumes do nothing to honor the memory of real soldiers.

And people flying pristine former military airplanes back and forth in high-speed passes at airshows does? Can't have it both ways.
Look, I get the point, but I can't stand the hypocricy of those who think that every P-51 has to be painted like a 8th AF ace's mount and going back and forth over fixed points for the public does anything better to 'honor' anyone than re-enactors do.
Either they all look foolish in that regard, or it's all the same thing. If you say it's all a little silly, then I'd respect your point. But as it is, you chose to pick one thing out that annoys you when everything else pretty much the same thing is somehow okay just because... uh... what's your reason why warbirds are somehow better again? :roll:

Liberator · **Joined:** Mon Feb 28, 2011 3:11 am **Posts:** 837

Seems Richard thinks warbirds are fine to restore and fly but what about honouring the MEN who flew or also served in times of war in or alongside....... is that due to your thinking..... somehow NOT required?

So Richard why is that then so ? Why is the human aspect just not worthy of honouring?
Why is honouring people not ok? Cmon share the views im very keen to hear.

Lets ask a question at an airshow how would the public know what people wore in combat operations or peace time operations 50-100years ago if they dont visit museums such as Australian War Memorial? Museums cant travel to airshows, so that why i get out there and reenact my displays when can so people can be EDUCATED and understand like ........gezz didnt KNOW pilots wore THAT much flight gear in WW2/Korea/Vietnam etc etc eras.....

With my equipment displays i allow to a degree a hands on experience thus allowing people to touch, understand and become educated.
Dig deeper and youll see MANY people both in military and outside as i see on some forums, actually do respect reenactors for ensuring the next generation wont forget them....
Dig deeper and youll find veterans open up to reenactors and share stories so that they can portray the era of history correctly.

Meanwhile ill keep doing what i can to ensure people are educated about history and learn something new.
You can gripe, whinge and complain and do nothing.
I know what is the better approach.

Liberator · **Joined:** Mon Feb 28, 2011 3:11 am **Posts:** 837

You maybe surprised Richard that many people follow history recreating beside myself try this page - https://www.facebook.com/groups/2765364 ... ion=stream

Dan K · **Posted:** Fri Jun 07, 2013 10:31 pm

p51 wrote:

Richard W. wrote:

It's my sincere belief that the grown men playing dress-up in costumes do nothing to honor the memory of real soldiers.

And people flying pristine former military airplanes back and forth in high-speed passes at airshows does? Can't have it both ways.
Look, I get the point, but I can't stand the hypocricy of those who think that every P-51 has to be painted like a 8th AF ace's mount and going back and forth over fixed points for the public does anything better to 'honor' anyone than re-enactors do.
Either they all look foolish in that regard, or it's all the same thing. If you say it's all a little silly, then I'd respect your point. But as it is, you chose to pick one thing out that annoys you when everything else pretty much the same thing is somehow okay just because... uh... what's your reason why warbirds are somehow better again? :roll:

I definitely have to side with Lee on this one.

Personally, I would pay top dollar to see 400 lb Fallschirmjaegern plummet from the sky in a Crete reenactment! The spectacle would be worth every penny. Perhaps Topeka could invite them (free food & beer!). :drink3:

Now mind you, I've never thought of reenacting myself. But if I did, I think I would have to go Russian.

Yes, definitely a Russian unit...

Richard W. · **Posted:** Sat Jun 08, 2013 5:03 am

Guys, I know there are some reenactors around here that won't agree with my criticism. I didn't expect to change any minds.

There's a lot of dignified ways to honor veterans and their contributions and some not so dignified ways. If anyone can't tell the difference, I'm afraid that a few lines on a message board aren't going to fix you.

Red Baaron · **Joined:** Wed Aug 29, 2012 3:54 pm **Posts:** 98

Liberator wrote:

You can gripe, whinge and complain and do nothing.
I know what is the better approach.

I don't know Richard at all and I'm assuming you don't either. So I think it's safe to say that you have no idea if he "gripes whinges and complains and does nothing" or not. Maybe he is involved with honoring veterans in other ways.

k5083 · **Posted:** Sat Jun 08, 2013 7:53 am

p51 wrote:

And people flying pristine former military airplanes back and forth in high-speed passes at airshows does? Can't have it both ways.

Actually, you can. The activities are not the same, and it is not hypocrisy to have different views about the two. You may not perceive or care about the relevant differences but many agree with Richard about them.

August

CH2Tdriver · **Posted:** Sat Jun 08, 2013 3:12 pm

k5083 wrote:

p51 wrote:

And people flying pristine former military airplanes back and forth in high-speed passes at airshows does? Can't have it both ways.

Actually, you can. The activities are not the same, and it is not hypocrisy to have different views about the two. You may not perceive or care about the relevant differences but many agree with Richard about them.

August

That is only because you are biased and happen to like the airplanes more. But P51 has a point. Explain to me how a multi-millionare who purchases a P-51 Mustang 'cause its cool, keeps it in his man cave hangar when its not flying around, has it painted blue with his wife's name in nose art emblazed across the yellow nose with this initials as squadron codes, is any different from the reenactors? It's not IMHO. And I don't have anything to do with reenacting. But I do enjoy going to the MAAM WW2 weekend along with the thousands of others.

And Richard you may want to come up to Geneseo at this years show and meet the members of the Liberty Jump Team who parachute out of the HAG C-47. These "stuntmen" are not dishonoring vets, but ARE VETS ex-airborne or earned jump wings in the military. Ask them if they feel they are "dishonoring" their comrads. They give the viewer a real perspective of what it was like and what the skies must of looked like when there were thousands of them under canopy.

k5083 · **Posted:** Sat Jun 08, 2013 8:29 pm

You are right, it is my bias, I like airplanes better than grown men playing dress up. But even if you like them both equally, dont tell me there isn't "any difference". An airplane is an airplane, a guy playing dress up is a guy playing dress up. Not the same, see? I'm entitled to consider airplanes fascinating and beautiful and guys playing dress up immature and a little creepy. The fact that both of them are, in part, honoring warriors is relevant, but it does not make them equivalent. Especially for me, since personally, honoring warriors has very little to do with why I like the planes.

But I would not go as far as Richard and suggest to anybody that they shouldn't reenact. That's none of my business.

August

N3Njeff · **Posted:** Sat Jun 08, 2013 10:44 pm

I hate to stir this thread away from what I think is a great effort to do something that would be a lifetime trip back in time for many but Ive got to bring it up.

Those who dont see "reenacting" as historical, did you read Taigh's great comments about his bomber camp?? I would love to hear from the pilot of 909 on what his thoughts were when both those .50's started firing?? He made the comment that they could feel the controls shake. Now maybe next time Taigh can get a couple cheek guns installed and the company ME-262 can make a high speed pass. Im sure they would get a hand full of what it would feel like. Maybe smell the cordite as it makes its way into the slipstream and by all of that happening, I am betting that they would never forget it. I would bet that every flight after that with a WW2 pilot would be just a bit more understanding to some people that were born in completely different generations. All of this is the benefit of Reenacting. Give a child a book about the Civil War, then take them to a Reenactment.................I will bet money that they will learn more from seeing it live then reading about it.

I have my thoughts to why some see no point in it and I will keep them to myself. But as someone who has done Living History Displays for the Vietnam War, I have never had a Veteran tell me that it he did not see the point in it. Their only comment was "do it right".

N3Njeff · **Posted:** Sat Jun 08, 2013 10:48 pm

Dan K wrote:

p51 wrote:

Richard W. wrote:

It's my sincere belief that the grown men playing dress-up in costumes do nothing to honor the memory of real soldiers.

And people flying pristine former military airplanes back and forth in high-speed passes at airshows does? Can't have it both ways.
Look, I get the point, but I can't stand the hypocricy of those who think that every P-51 has to be painted like a 8th AF ace's mount and going back and forth over fixed points for the public does anything better to 'honor' anyone than re-enactors do.
Either they all look foolish in that regard, or it's all the same thing. If you say it's all a little silly, then I'd respect your point. But as it is, you chose to pick one thing out that annoys you when everything else pretty much the same thing is somehow okay just because... uh... what's your reason why warbirds are somehow better again? :roll:

I definitely have to side with Lee on this one.

Personally, I would pay top dollar to see 400 lb Fallschirmjaegern plummet from the sky in a Crete reenactment! The spectacle would be worth every penny. Perhaps Topeka could invite them (free food & beer!). :drink3:

Obviously he is a guard at Stalag 17

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