ww 2 german navy's aircraft carrier & aircraft

tom d. friedman · **Posted:** Fri Dec 30, 2005 11:58 pm

how's this for an off beat topic?? ww 2 germany's only aircraft carrier der "veiner schnitzel"!!......... only kidding!!! wanted to see if you guys are still nipping on the holiday cheer!! :drinkers:

seriously though.... i read a small article many moons ago accompanied with a few pics of ww 2 germany's 1 & only carrier which i believe was named graf zeppelin (talk about a well used name!!) the carrier was a dock queen, never saw service. what interests me is the aircraft that was proposed for carrier duty. what if any passed carrier landing / take off qualifications?? i know the stuka was proposed, but never saw a pic of 1 with an arrestor hook, let alone never heard of it's carrier test info. any notable ww 2 german pilots accomplish carrier qualifications?? best, tom

Originalboxcar · **Posted:** Sat Dec 31, 2005 7:58 am

tom d. friedman · **Posted:** Sat Dec 31, 2005 5:33 pm

were carrier landing tests accomplished with the me 109 -t model??

Mathieu · **Posted:** Sun Jan 01, 2006 3:19 am

Hei,

Fiesler built 20 Fi 167s, this aircraft were designed to be used on a carrier.
On www.luftarchiv.de you can find pictures of this bi-plane.

Best regards,

Mathieu

Originalboxcar · **Posted:** Sun Jan 01, 2006 1:06 pm

tom d. friedman · **Posted:** Sun Jan 01, 2006 4:52 pm

that's a revelation!! it sure looked basically complete!!

airnutz · **Posted:** Mon Jan 02, 2006 2:37 am

originalboxcar wrote:

tom d. friedman wrote:

were carrier landing tests accomplished with the me 109 -t model??

I doubt it Tom, since the Zepplin was never complete.

regards,

t~

But, did they ever perform land-based "trap-quals" with the '109T?

SaxMan · **Posted:** Mon Jan 02, 2006 9:04 pm

The Me-109 in carrier-based operations would have very scary. It's narrow undercarriage was a handful to handle on solid ground, let alone a pitching carrier deck. According to "Fighter" by Len Deighton, it is estimated that nearly 5 percent of all Me-109s produced were written off in taxiing or landing accidents.

I imagine had the Graf Zepplin been put in commission, they would have eventually used a navalized version of the FW-190A. With it's radial engine and extremely wide track, it would have made a better carrier fighter than the Me-109. Perhaps as a reaction to the narrow undercarriage of the Me-109, the FW-190 had the widest undercarriage of any single engine fighter of the war (perhaps the P-47N would be the only exception).

airnutz · **Posted:** Tue Jan 03, 2006 12:02 am

SaxMan, in reference to the Me-109T-1 landing characteristics with the
narrow-track landing gear, I tend to agree with you. We had a short
discussion last year about that..but I tend to think it would have been a
bit more docile on the landing than a '109E due to it's increased wingspan.
I've also read in the meantime, that they proposed to used a thicker
tubing for the carrier 109 landing gear. Still, carriers...especially in the
North Sea are rough duty, so I think the narrow-track would've been less
than the best option.

Willy was no dummy. While the Me-109T-1 was based on the E-model,
Messerschmitt had a design proposal replacing the T-model with one
based on the G-model fuselage. The Me-155 would also have a completely
new wing, wide-track undercarriage, inward retracting LG...as well as
other standard carrier operation mods. and a DB-605. link here...
http://www.xs4all.nl/~tozu/me109/family/me155.htm

Some '109T info, as well as a photo at the bottom of a '109B catapult test..
http://www.xs4all.nl/~tozu/me109/family/109T.htm

I'd still like to see some arrestor-hook test photos...won't hold my breath
for a 109T example though. :oops:

There's a book I haven't seen yet..
The Sea Eagles: The Luftwaffe's Maritime Operations by Peter C. Smith
Luftwaffe At War series.

A carrier based FW-190...you got good taste! :wink:

EDIT:
Should have said the '109T would be more docile upon landing than the
Me-109E, due to the increased wingspan....edited text.
Also, after a few beers...the wall thickness increase of the LG tubes, was
IIRC...3mm for the T-model, but never implemented :roll:

Tulio · **Joined:** Mon May 03, 2004 1:05 am **Posts:** 3236

Found out today, that the Heinkel He 112A-01 back in 1936, was the prototype for the He 112C-0 that would have been a carrier based fighter.

We know that this never took place, but shows another aircraft considered for that role.

Saludos,

Tulio

Scott Rose · **Posted:** Tue Jan 03, 2006 1:26 am

Ju 87C were built for carrier use

http://www.warbirdsresourcegroup.org/LRG/ju87c.html

airnutz · **Posted:** Tue Jan 03, 2006 3:48 am

Thanks Tulio..I didn't know that...the He-112C-0, 1 more to the a/c carrier
possibles.

Scott, I forgot to check the WRG..saw the Ju-87C mentioned a few times
on the net, but ET didn't phone home..sigh...found this neat color-plate
multi-view of the Ju-87C, although the "open-wing" details differ from the
photo...end-on folded, that is..
http://wp.scn.ru/en/ww2/b/29/2/1/26

tom d. friedman · **Posted:** Tue Jan 03, 2006 7:23 pm

glad to see the stuka w/ the folding wings. definetely different!! if you really think about it.... other than the fw-190 what other plane was really practical for german carrier service??? the heinkel fighter was more of a propaganda bird, so it doesn't rate in my book.

Ollie · **Posted:** Tue Jan 03, 2006 7:28 pm

The 109 would not have fared any better than the Seafires with their narrow tracks.

But the German carrier would not have fared any better than the Bismarck when you think about it... :wink:

Tulio · **Joined:** Mon May 03, 2004 1:05 am **Posts:** 3236

"the heinkel fighter was more of a propaganda bird, so it doesn't rate in my book."

Tom:

The Heinkel 112 saw service-and combat- in Spain, Hungary and Romania....

One of the Spanish machines, shot and forced to land a P-38 of the 12th AF, in Morocco, during March of 1943.

Saludos,

Tulio

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