Kee Bird?

Dan Jones · **Posted:** Thu Feb 28, 2013 5:47 pm

Had they driven it out onto the ice and then waited a couple of weeks for the snow to melt they would have had several thousand feet of hard surfaced runway. It might have been a little rough in spots but it would have been more than sufficient to get it out of there. I'd have been very curious to know what was going on inside those old self-sealing, rubber gas tanks though. I like to think she'd have made it to Thule at least, but I doubt very much that all four engines would have been running when she got there. And why oh why were they planning on retracting the gear? It was only about two hundred and fifty miles or so. When they were swinging the gear on the video I kept waiting for the big pink explosion!

I read somewhere once that it was a brand new airplane, something like 210 hrs TTSN.

bombadier29 · **Joined:** Sun Jan 29, 2012 9:17 pm **Posts:** 272

Dan Jones wrote:

When they were swinging the gear on the video I kept waiting for the big pink explosion!

Would have been a big blue flash since because the gear is electric. But I shared the basic concern as well!

Dan Jones · **Posted:** Thu Feb 28, 2013 6:21 pm

Electric? Really? I just asumed it was powered by an electric hydraulic pump... There - I learned something today after all!
:drink3:

bombadier29 · **Joined:** Sun Jan 29, 2012 9:17 pm **Posts:** 272

As I remember it, everything is electric except the brakes.

b29driver · **Posted:** Thu Feb 28, 2013 7:38 pm

bombadier29 wrote:

As I remember it, everything is electric except the brakes.

Just like the B-17. One electric hydraulic pump just for the brakes.

andyman64 · **Posted:** Thu Feb 28, 2013 7:44 pm

Mr Greenamyer knew better than anyone in order to achieve great things you have to first try! its all fine and dandy for us all to say in hind sight how stupid this thing or that thing is that daryl did but at least he tried if he hadn,t none of us would be having this conversation and the KEEBIRD would still be in GREENLAND just my 2 cents!!!

Kyleb · **Posted:** Thu Feb 28, 2013 8:03 pm

p51 wrote:

DH82EH wrote:

They were so close. I've often imagined what the reactions would have been if she showed up at Oshkosh. :shock:

I've talked with a few people who've flown the CAF B-29 and crewed 29s during and after WW2. Many of them have said there was no way the Kee Bird would have gotten off the ground on that 'runway' they plowed for her. A B-29 is certainly not a STOL bird. I've never flown a Sperfort so I can't say personally.
That said, a pal of mine was at the Bas HQ at Thule at the time and he's told me that there was no way they'd have allowed the Kee Bird to leave if it'd gotten there. He's said they evern looked into where they'd store the bird once the refused to let it leave except in crates on a ship. The plan as I was told was that they'd have demanded that the B-29 meet all FAA requirements (and any other nations' that they could invoke) to let it fly out and were fully ready to cacoon the bird in a thick layer of red tape. "They were never going to leave the base in that plane once they got there," he recently told me.

Your story may be absolutely true, but I have a hard time understanding what authority the folks at a military base have to determine/enforce FAA requirements.

As to whether Kee Bird would have made it off of that runway - sure looked rough to me, but the density altitude was probably pretty favorable, and the airplane would have been at a relatively light weight, which would have helped considerably.

Wildchild · **Posted:** Thu Feb 28, 2013 8:49 pm

andyman64 wrote:

Mr Greenamyer knew better than anyone in order to achieve great things you have to first try! its all fine and dandy for us all to say in hind sight how stupid this thing or that thing is that daryl did but at least he tried if he hadn,t none of us would be having this conversation and the KEEBIRD would still be in GREENLAND just my 2 cents!!!

The KEEBIRD would still be in Greenland In one piece
And, couldn't they have used a helicoptor to remove the wings and fuslage (Swamp Ghost...) to a road or something?

andyman64 · **Posted:** Thu Feb 28, 2013 10:09 pm

peice? is that what you find where the huskeys go???

Wildchild · **Posted:** Thu Feb 28, 2013 10:44 pm

Is it sad that my iPod changed it to peice...? (knew I was right the first time. Lmao)

cooper9411 · **Posted:** Fri Mar 01, 2013 1:46 am

Greenamyer was just to anxious. Should have taken the extra time to inspect and double check everything. Oh thats right hingsight! None of us can actually say how we would have acted under the same circumstances.

b29driver · **Posted:** Fri Mar 01, 2013 7:39 am

Dan Jones wrote:

Had they driven it out onto the ice and then waited a couple of weeks for the snow to melt they would have had several thousand feet of hard surfaced runway. It might have been a little rough in spots but it would have been more than sufficient to get it out of there. I'd have been very curious to know what was going on inside those old self-sealing, rubber gas tanks though. I like to think she'd have made it to Thule at least, but I doubt very much that all four engines would have been running when she got there. And why oh why were they planning on retracting the gear? It was only about two hundred and fifty miles or so. When they were swinging the gear on the video I kept waiting for the big pink explosion!

I read somewhere once that it was a brand new airplane, something like 210 hrs TTSN.

The reason for retracting the gear you answered yourself. Even a light B-29 does not fly far on three engines with the gear down. Even a light B-29 does not fly far on two engines with the wheels up.

Dan Jones · **Posted:** Fri Mar 01, 2013 10:55 am

b29driver wrote:

Dan Jones wrote:

Had they driven it out onto the ice and then waited a couple of weeks for the snow to melt they would have had several thousand feet of hard surfaced runway. It might have been a little rough in spots but it would have been more than sufficient to get it out of there. I'd have been very curious to know what was going on inside those old self-sealing, rubber gas tanks though. I like to think she'd have made it to Thule at least, but I doubt very much that all four engines would have been running when she got there. And why oh why were they planning on retracting the gear? It was only about two hundred and fifty miles or so. When they were swinging the gear on the video I kept waiting for the big pink explosion!

I read somewhere once that it was a brand new airplane, something like 210 hrs TTSN.

The reason for retracting the gear you answered yourself. Even a light B-29 does not fly far on three engines with the gear down. Even a light B-29 does not fly far on two engines with the wheels up.

Based on your handle I'll take your word for it. I would have thought that at the relatively low weight of the ferry flight (I'm guessing less than 100 000lbs) that the airplane would have had some surplus of performance - enough to leave the gear bolted down so you could avoid any of those pesky "one main's not indicating down" comments that I so hate hearing a flight engineer say. Of course that gets compounded by all the drag from the missing gear doors, bomb doors, and other damage, to say nothing of the low performance gasoline. Please don't take my comments as negatively armchair quarterbacking the operation. Frankly they got farther along than most people would have, but they might have benefitted from listening to some "local" knowledge.

A friend of mine flew the Twin Otter support airplane when they came back in the spring, and Karl had been in the business of salvaging and flying airplanes from some very remote places basically forever. Besides being an old hand at flying in the arctic he was a very experienced AME (A&P/IA) and though unfamiliar with B-29's was pretty familiar with thawing out and salvaging bent airplanes in the arctic - more than one DC-3 among them. He's the one who suggested they drive it out onto the ice and then just wait for the snow to leave.

But Grenamyer and his crew gave it a very valiant try. They did far and away more than anyone else did and got further than many people (myself included) thought they would have. I also think that based on the temperature, the power and low weight of the airplane, the likely density altitude, and the guy driving, that they would have got it out of the snow (but I bet it would have been one heII of a rough ride!!).

My hat's off to them. I'd like to buy them a drink and hear the story first hand.

Just out of curiosity, for say a 250 mile ferry flight under those circumstances, what would "Fifi" have weighed at takeoff?

phil65 · **Posted:** Fri Mar 01, 2013 6:28 pm

If I remember right, did they not talk about having their toolboxes in the B-29 for the flight out?

If you want to be light, let the Caribou fly that stuff out.

Phil

gary1954 · **Posted:** Fri Mar 01, 2013 11:47 pm

Wildchild wrote:

andyman64 wrote:

Mr Greenamyer knew better than anyone in order to achieve great things you have to first try! its all fine and dandy for us all to say in hind sight how stupid this thing or that thing is that daryl did but at least he tried if he hadn,t none of us would be having this conversation and the KEEBIRD would still be in GREENLAND just my 2 cents!!!

The KEEBIRD would still be in Greenland In one piece
And, couldn't they have used a helicoptor to remove the wings and fuslage (Swamp Ghost...) to a road or something?

I thought the same thing when I saw the recovery effort of the Kee Bird, I wondered why they didn’t contract a Sikorsky CH-54 Tarhe commonly referred to as the Crane or Skycrane. It is a Heavy Lift helicopter that has a payload capability to transport a M551 Sheridan tank and that sucker weighs in at 34,000 pounds. Seems to me that removal of the outer wing panels and fly them out followed by the fuselage, she could have been extracted and reassembled at another location. I’m just sayin’

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