Warbird Information Exchange

Randy:

Good day!

I knew you were out there..somewhere in the midwest in this 2013! How is the Cav P-51 book coming along?? I know it's going to be a classic in the Mustang/Cavalier aviation circles.Tks for the info & data. Good luck!

The photo caption says: "Cavalier F-51 Mustang II of FAS. Photographed c.1968 from a FAG P-51D. Photo Puente family via Willy Puente". You may read the rest of the story here:

http://www.laahs.com/content.php?166-The-100-Hour-War

p.s Do any of your pics shows N4222A in white letters at the tail??

Unfortunately, a caption in an article in and of itself isn't evidence. There would be a lot more that could be derived from having the original photo, or seeing other photos taken during that same flight or before/after the flight.

The only time I am aware of the N4222A went to Central America (the end of '68), it had the N number in white letters on the vertical tail and was not carrying any ordnance or inert ordnance. John Dienst and Dan Hagedorn's book has a photo of it on Page 16.

Given that the photo you posted looks very similar to photos taken on a photo flight in the US, there's going to have to be some additional evidence to make the argument that it is something other than that. Occam's razor.

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Randy:

Good Evening!

Your assertions are indeed correct! That particular photo was prob taken before c.1968. As far as the poss location, would you mind posting a sample of your similar photo in the U.S just to compare terrain/background data?? Tks.

Cavalier Folks:

Good day!

While we wait for a better resolution pic on Cavalier N4222A that seems to be climbing from an ukn coast into the sea.. we found this other interesting Cav pic in www/AEC.

Does any one knows the story of this pic also? place & date?? aircraft Reg?

Tks

Cavalier Folks:

Good day!

The other side of the story of N4222A somewhere off the Guatemalan coast. (Poss?). c. 1967. Photo via FAG525.

I dont follow the planes and numbers as much as lots of your guys ikn thissubject, but I worked at Ilopango for Panam from 1965 until the middleof 1970 when I transferred to JFK, so i was there during the War and was invoilved with that, and we had info that the war might come. I knew Archie Baldocchi and me and the Station manager wud eat lunch at the Aero club and there was a group of other Americans there aslso whowere not pilots. I know that Archie died a few years ago, and I know that his family wasfrom the SFO area and they owned a bakery. the mystery is that,I alwaysunderstood that he was also a former panam pilot and then he married the local girl, who wAs part of one of the 14 rich families that controlled elSalvador, and his wife bought the P-51 as a toy for him???Noltsure of this story asi cannot find any info that he flew for us. I remember the P-51 s coming into Ilopango before the war. all different colors, and next day they were paintd camflauge. I remember the niteof the attack on Honduras, and about 40 planes took off, even Cessnas withthe right side door off and a machine gun installed. We loaned ourpallet roller racks for the DC3s to roll the bombs out. I did hear that mercenaries wereflying too, and our Sal airport manager,Major Dominguez flew a Corsair. I never saw Archie actually fly his plane, he wud comeout anddo a run up, and shut down, butit was a nice silver plane and well kept. I remember a 2 seater P-51 ran off the sid e of he runway and we ran out to get the guys out, they had oil all over them and gotsome pretty good burns. I dont know if they were just practicing then, and dontthink the war started yet. One bomb landed near the tunnel underpass by the runway, and one nhit a TACA stws car in the employee parking lot. I have been back to SAL 2times, and flew 5 hrs with a young Capt pilot Fidel rivas Perez, from the Air force in an old Cessna, I gues s called a T-41, I will have to look up the pictures, of the sn, and webuzzed the new airport with permission about 10 feet off the groundall the way down the runway. We flew the north for 2 hrs, then the southern part of thecountry for 3 hrs, skimmed the coastline over the fishermen, and had a nice experience. We have good video of those two flights and wedid some crazy stuff going pretty close into the volcanos, esp. San Vicente. and around Izalco. Mostof the oldpanam employess have died, but I still have 3 who dont write emails, but it ws a great duty there. I was orig sent ther to train the Ops staff and stayed 5 years, rented a nice house, got ecxtra overseas pay, and was able to save money. In 1970 I returned toJFK , Worked at the terminal, the moved into HQ until 1991 when we closed. Had 5 months short of 30 years but the best airline in the World!!!!!Gone but Not Forgotten!!!!! Paul Clipper NY Sorry for the long story!!!!!!

Clipper:

Good day!

Tks for the stories, info & data of Ilopango 1969!! Both of your threads have some very interesting data, including the 2 seater P-51 that ran off the runway.

p.s If you have any aviation photos of your tours plz feel free to post them. Tks

Hi Zorro Unfortunately I dont know how to post pictures in this site, but I can send picturs that Ihave in theinternet, via emails if u care to give me your address. I dont have all of my pix loaded, and if u have a great interest, I will make color copies and mail stuff to you too. I have pictures of Pres Johnson when he came ther in 1968 for a meeting of all the Central amer Pres, and we took care of AF one for a week there. I wish tht I knew how to transfer from internet, my pictures into this site, but beyond my computer skills. I have p[ictures fromSantiago Chile air museum 2011, Intrepid Carrier in NYC 2011, some from McGuire AFB 1962, and maybe soem from Alaska too, since I worked ther too(1963-65), My email is Panam1962@gmail.com if interested. tks PS Clipper

Clipper:

Good day!!

Plz ck your pm! Tks

FAS F-51 Cavalier Folks:

Another of the obscure FAS F-51 data during July 1969 is why the pilot of FAS 400 (TF-51) Cpt B.Trabanino, opted to land at La Aurora, Guatemala on the evening of 14 Jul 1969.

This is what the CNN folks of those days transmitted over the radio waves that day. He may have landed some place else in Guatemalan territory just before darkness but to this day the pics of a FAS 400 in Guatemalan territory remain elusive. All that we know so far is that Cpt. Trabanino was ordered to vector to Guatemala. We'll dig some more.Photo AEC.

FAS P-51 Folks/Soccer War Warbirds:

Trying to get to bottom of what really took place at Ilopango, during the evening of Jul 14, 1969 to apprx 18 Jul, 1969 will take some time. We see in this thread that all depends who you talked to & what kind of comments "witnesses" are sharing. But eventually we will.

I have some probs with the group of "mercenaries" arriving the evening of Wed 16 July, 1969 at Ilopango. Whether there were P-51s or Cavaliers in the collision at EOR Rwy 33 in the early hrs of Wed 16 July, 1969,... there was simply not enough time for Col Bustillo & Archie B. to take a PAA flight to the US & gather some P-51s & pilots and come back on that date of afterwards. Some recent comments placed in the FAS forum by FAS maint eye witnesses of that era placed the mercenary pilots & their P-51s later on that date around 17-18 July 1969. Still a fast & swift logistic move fm the U.S to Ilopango. These moves tend to indicate that there was a plan "B" some 30 days prior to "D" day. These mercenaries BTW were never contacted by FAH or offered any amount of $$$$ higher or lower than the FAS bids to fly for FAH, These are only spurious hangar talk/info.

As far as FAS B-26s used as decoys,... during the week of July 1969 is very doubtful! The 1st sample arrived after July 1969 & had no armament installed according to FAS maint techs of the era. The name of the pilot is also given. Will post his initials later on. FAS had no qualified crews flying B-26s in June-July 1969..there were busy learning the ins-out of the FAS Cavaliers.

p.s .... we are still digging for some unique FAS 400 pics!!

..another interesting find... Cavalier II FAS 405 (Center) in a poss test spin with other cousins! c. 1968 Poss S. Florida. Photo via AEC.

p.s As we understand now there were 6 P-51 Cavaliers II not 5 bought by FAS c. 1968.

i just have a question in mind, i don´t know if you already answer it, but did the FAS-404 had wing tips the day it was shot down?? some Salvadorians say yes, some others refuse it. others say they had them at the beginning of the conflict and later were removed, but some others say they were removed before the war.

Jack
According to some historians, the FAS-404 did have the wingtip tanks the day it was shot down. Col. Soto also mentioned it in an interview, but seems like in other occasions he simply didn't recall that detail. Other details indicate that the mercenary pilots recommended the tanks removed, and apparently they started doing it on Thu. 17th (the day 404 was shot down) and Fri. 18th.

This was taken on a flight over Sarasota specifically for promotional material for Cavalier. There are numerous shots of this flight in publication and circulation.

There were 5 Mustang IIs (FAS 401 through 405) and one TF-51 (FAS 400) that was sort of in Mustang II configuration. I categorize FAS 400 as one of the "Cavalier TF-51s" rather than a "Cavalier Mustang II".

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