new medal created by pentagon for drone pilots

[tom d. friedman]

wow did this thread take off!!! everyone has posted very valid points to one extent or another. i can see this is an emotional issue with vets or those now serving. i think muddy buddy made the core comment that the entire medal awarding system & doctrine needs to be re-assessed by the brass. for perspective my dad's only truly cherished medal was his combat infantry badge. money wise you can buy 1 on the web or ebay for under 20 bucks, but to survive having your ass being possibly shot off has merit that you can't put a value on. bottom line..... times are changing, military doctrine is changing, military jobs are changing, we had better get caught up with the entire shooting match!!

[b29flteng]

If they placed it below the Bronze Star there would be no controversy.

Randy, I'm a former combat aircrewman and I would be insulted by a drone pilot being awarded the new medal with a higher status than a Bronze Star.

[muddyboots]

Nobody is equating them and their physical risk.

If it comes to measuring their sacrifice as less than that of someone - anyone- piloting a drone, I am. And plenty of others are too. People die for that bit of tin and cloth.

I have often said that my awards were stupid. However, there are plenty of people who received those awards as the only measure their country can give them besides a casket, a decent burial, and a grave at Arlington. To place an award above that sacrifice for a lesser sacrifice does them, their service, and their country a disservice.

Your stress while flying an attack drone is tiny compared to the stress of someone lying in the dirt, taking fire, returning fire, being hit, and wondering if they're going to die, if they're going to lose an arm, or how their family is going to take it when they buy it. It's miniscule compared to the grief of the family when that casket comes home. No matter how bad it gets, you know you're always going to climb out of your seat, pull off your flight suit, and go home for a hot meal and a bed after. People who earn Bronze Stars have no assurance of that, no assurance they'll be alive in five minutes. And if they survive, they're just as if not more likely to have to deal with the aftermath all their lives with PTSD, just like your drone pilots.

Certainly being a drone pilot is stressful. The possibility of making a mistake that can cost lives of innocents or of you own men is highly nerve wracking. Every single combat soldier lives with the risk of causing a friendly fire death. But it's not the equal of the sacrifice a front line combatant makes when he undertakes an action that wins him the Bronze Star. What, you think the ground pounders aren't a little stressed out when they hear you overhead? Just a little? I mean, why are they calling you to rescue them in the first place? And they know what you can do to them if you make a mistake. You think they aren't pissing their pants when you move in close? If they aren't from the enemy incoming then they sure are from the sound of yours.

I do not have a problem with guys in flight suits trying desperately to give good ground support to grunts. It took many many years for the AF to realize that was actually an important mission, instead of carpet bombing. A lot of American died in WWII teaching them that lesson, and it really took till the first Gulf War for it to really sink in. Now we have it, I'd hate to let it go. But I don't think massaging the ego's of drone pilots, by claiming their actions are braver or more important than people who move in close are, is the solution to the fact that nobody really really wants to sit in a barn and fly a drone. Of course they'd rather be in a fighter. But that age is ending, and we have to make this attractive if we're going to continue fielding an air force.

Which is what this is about. At the Bronze Star level and above, awards should be for bravery for people below O6 Rank. For them, fine, give them the LoM. But for the rest of us, meritorious awards should fall below the Bronze Star.And that is what this is.

Awarded in the name of the Secretary of Defense, the Distinguished Warfare Medal may be awarded for extraordinary achievement to members of the United States Armed Forces.

In what way does ^THAT^ equal dying to save your buddies? Or losing your legs to get a squadmate out of a mine field?

And by the by, there are plenty of people shaking the desk of your general. You can bet it won't be let lie when the Sec Def takes over. I'm fine with an award. I agree that there should be something weighty attached to the job. Just not claiming it has merit above an award that involves sacrificing one's life, or limbs, or health in the interest of other, which has historically been one of the main reasons the Bronze Star is given out.

Look, we're going around in circles. You seem to think Drone Pilots deserve this award at this level. I do not. I think having said this I have one more thing to say:

Drone pilots are indispensable today. We MUST convince pilots it's a good thing- maybe a better thing than flying F15's and F22's and F35's. I am glad they do what they do, and no one discounts the hours they put in, the sacrifices they make, or the grief they feel when they screw up. Soldiering is soldiering. No matter what you do, it is hard, and it is a sacrifice. It's about LEVEL of sacrifice that I am insulted. The bronze star is about GREATER sacrifice than meritorious. If the Air Force wants to show their gratitude lets find them a way to do it that doesn't degrade the memories of all those men who died earning the Bronze Star.

[Big Daddy]

Well, so sorry for exercising my right to voice my opinion. For that I am called "ridiculous, asinine and elitist". Very mature response. I was not denigrating the job these guys do or the fact that lives on the ground are jeopardized if they make a blunder. I was simply stating my opinion, the same opinion I might add as some of the other "ridiculous, asinine elitists" on this forum. C'est la vie.

BD

[Mark Allen M]

I knew my analogy on a drone pilot Winning a MOH was a stretch but there was a point to it, never the less. Interesting conversation.

[Enemy Ace]

FWIW I understand that the placing of the award where it is in the hierarchy has everything to do with being credited a certain # of promotion points. It was/ has never been a weasel method of shorting those who actually are in combat AOR's.
The RPV and CyberWar communities have started to mature and the only way to retain some of the incredible talent is to have some way of recognizing them and at the same time make promotion to higher rank viable. Units of cyberwar specialists should not have to be placed under the command of someone (say some former F-16 pilot) who does not understand what is happening because they are new to the field, but has more promotion points overall than someone who has been locked in the basement defeating chinese hacker attacks for the last decade.
The military overall understands at the higher levels that due to the state of the economy in recent years it has a real shot at keeping and retaining some outstanding technological talent that otherwise would have never considered a government career. Those same technicians have exactly zero interest in playing infantryman in the mud. But, in order to retain those people they have to have a promotable career path.
The threat posed by CyberWar attacks to our way of life in the USA already dwarfs anything that could be considered a threat by anything else (bombers, fighters, etc etc) short of true nuclear warfare.

[Tombstoner139]

One part to consider when piloting a drone, it doesn't completely remove you from the dangers of combat. it has to do with
how your communicating with the drone. yes you could be in continental US linked by satellite or you could be on an aircraft 100 miles away
and subject to interception by OPFOR. Exceptionally applying your skills remotely to the benefit of ongoing operations should be grounds for recognition.
One huge part of drone use is protection of the pilot. Just because it's safer than traditional aircraft, shouldn't mean they cant be recognized.

[b29flteng]

FWIW I understand that the placing of the award where it is in the hierarchy has everything to do with being credited a certain # of promotion points. It was/ has never been a weasel method of shorting those who actually are in combat AOR's.
The RPV and CyberWar communities have started to mature and the only way to retain some of the incredible talent is to have some way of recognizing them and at the same time make promotion to higher rank viable. Units of cyberwar specialists should not have to be placed under the command of someone (say some former F-16 pilot) who does not understand what is happening because they are new to the field, but has more promotion points overall than someone who has been locked in the basement defeating chinese hacker attacks for the last decade.
The military overall understands at the higher levels that due to the state of the economy in recent years it has a real shot at keeping and retaining some outstanding technological talent that otherwise would have never considered a government career. Those same technicians have exactly zero interest in playing infantryman in the mud. But, in order to retain those people they have to have a promotable career path.
The threat posed by CyberWar attacks to our way of life in the USA already dwarfs anything that could be considered a threat by anything else (bombers, fighters, etc etc) short of true nuclear warfare.

I think this comment is spot on. It's all about getting promotions for "Wing Wienies".