Warbird Information Exchange

Maybe he was confusing the "Old 666" story with the CIA plane in Nam?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_666

Sounds like a good movie...

Thanks, John

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"Experience is what you get, just after you needed it."

Exactly. Classic urban legend. Just like every WW2 Jeep owner has heard the "$50 Jeep in a crate" story so often*, they wanna strangle people when they hear it as it's pure urban legend and always from someone who heard of someone who swears it's true...

*http://wwiijeepparts.com/Archives/WW2JeepsInCrates.html

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Life member, 91st BG Memorial Association
Owner, 1944 Willys MB #366014
Former REMF (US Army, O3)

From Joe Baughers website:

85531 registered Sept 1957 to Western Enterprises, Inc of Taiwan (founded by the CIA in 1951). In late 1957 missions were staged from Kurmitola Air Field in East Pakistan to parachute agents into Tibet. Stored at Clark AFB Dec 1957. Disassembled for parts at Clark between March and Oct 1958. It is believed that this plane was eventually scrapped. The number 44-85531 appeared again as registered on another B-17G Sep 1, 1960 registered to Atlantic General Enterprise, Washington DC (another CIA front) as N809Z. These registration numbers were then changed to the true numbers of 44-83785.

http://www.joebaugher.com/usaf_serials/1944_6.html

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Roger Cain
www.sfahistory.org
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Stearman/


We must limit politicians to two terms:
one in office and one in jail.

...and don't forget about the B-25s in 'Nam.



Source:http://www.network54.com/Forum/47751/message/1156275235/B-25's+in+Vietnam

Wow, you gotta admit that if they'd had Mitchells in 'Nam, it would easy to picture them looking just like this!

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Life member, 91st BG Memorial Association
Owner, 1944 Willys MB #366014
Former REMF (US Army, O3)

While I kinda doubt this happened as originally posted i have to admit some of the statements made are......not as well thought out as they might be.

First; B-17s were used in Vietnam as demonstrated by some of the posters. Granted they were not in the time or manner specified.

Second; it was stated that the B-17 was out of USAF inventory by 1960. Well....yeah...but what has that to do with CIA owned birds? No one knows when the CIA stopped using B-17s. But it was no sooner than 1963.

Third; the Evergreen bird is such a mystery that I'm not sure anything can be said with authority about her.

Lastly; the thought that an all black aircraft flown from clandestine locations, at night; on secret missions...just HAD to have been seen and photographed by someone AND that those pictures would have been published by now; well.......really?

So in summary its up ...meME to disprove YOUR theory, with a photo...this one time at space camp...

The question the intial poster asked was were B-17's used in Vietnam / Indo China (also known as VRN) and the answer is = Yes.

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Disclaimer: Photo discription, original photographer and/or original web source credit unknown unless otherwise noted.

I believe the original poster asked if B-17's were used in Vietnam carrying Mini-guns? That answer is still seen to be no. I pulled out a couple of well written books on the subject and neither of them mention a Mini gun installation in that type of aircraft. For a mini gun to be installed, were looking at the earliest for 63-64 and the GAU-2 was still being tested and the SUU pod it would sit in, only in a blueprint form. So for most we can look at 64-65.

I can make a visit to someone who could shed ANY light on something this early. He was a tech rep for the GAU-2 for GE (this gun was built in VT) and he made some trips to VN. I dont remember if he was on the inital trips to Eglin for the install in the C-47. I know that before his retirement, he was installing them in some Bassler 3's that were headed south. If a B-17 carried his gun, he should know.

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Long Live the N3N-3 "The Last US Military Bi-Plane" 1940-1959
Badmouthing Stearmans on WIX since 2005

The original test bed for AC's at Eglin AFB was a C-131.

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Cheers!

Lance Jones

What the original poster wanted to know was if there was a slight chance that the Army or Airforce (possibly even the CIA) used B-17's as gunships, because I have an ex-B-17 pilot who is claiming he was a squadron commander on B-17 spooky birds. We will probably get more information once the member on the other forum reply's, but until then, it's speculation here.

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My racing will fund my warbirding. Hopefully...

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/#!/ChristopherDeshongRacing
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And there's a chance that the gentleman being interviewed meant well but simply made a mistake.

Rather than pick apart the B-17 story, I'll comment on the awesome pseudo SEA B-25. Very nice model, wonderful job with the paint and markings. For you B-25 guys, did you spot anything that just shouts out "hoax"? It looks to me like the kit used was a late C/D, whereas a COIN airframe would most likely been based on a low-time J. The nose gun setup is reminiscent of the Pappy Gunn .50's placed inside a glass nose and painted over vs the factory 8-gun hard nose we're accustomed to seeing (and which closely resembles the 8-gun installation on the B-26K). The final point I was going to mention (but I was wrong) is how close the inboard weapons pylons are to the nacelles ... but a look at the B-26K shows that they too had overlap between the prop arc and the ordnance. Surprises me, but I learn something new every day. Kudos to the model builder with an imagination; love it!

Ken

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"Take care of the little things and the big things will take care of themselves."

Individual exhaust stubs. If built, would have used low time TB-25Ns.

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Cheers!

Lance Jones

Using the logic of some here, I could declare that Apollo 11 made a low-level pass over Saigon on it's way to the Moon to scare the NVA. Then, by the logic (or lack thereof) of some posters here, it'd be their responsibility to prove me wrong...
There is no documentation anywhere that I know of that a B-17 was used a gunship in the Vietnam War that the US was an active part of. So, it's the responsibility of those who say it happened to provide evidence that indeed it happened.
Otherwise, you need to introduce yourself to the concept of reasoning...

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Life member, 91st BG Memorial Association
Owner, 1944 Willys MB #366014
Former REMF (US Army, O3)

i think in coming here he was attempting to use the warbird, information, and exchange aspects of what is, notionally at least, the warbird information exchange, to find some evidence, if it existed. you've said your piece, and your point is well stated. perhaps should you should consider that others might enjoy discussing the possibility since there have been times where historical facts have come to light well out of the blue. or just stop being rude, i could care less which you pick.

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-recovering Viper crew chief
-AWACS driver/soon-to-be A-26 driver
-displaced Philadelphian

Overlooking the obvious fact that the USAF didn't have any B-17s during the period in question....
Why would they have kept the operation secret? The early gunship program was well-known..

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Remember the vets, the wonderful planes they flew and their sacrifices for a future many of them did not live to see.
Note political free signature.
I figure if you wanted my opinion on items unrelated to this forum, you'd ask for it.