The Doolittle Raid B-25 Rumor

[Dan Jones]

What's the latest on the (fairly recent) rumor that parts of "Ski" York's B-25 had been found in a Russian junkyard? If I remember correctly the rumor came from somebody at the USAFM?

Dan

Last edited by Dan Jones on Mon Dec 10, 2012 6:42 am, edited 1 time in total.

[Wildchild]

I havn't heard about this, but how many B-25's crash-landed in water that could be intact?

[rwdfresno]

It was claimed on this forum that the NMUSAF was quietly meeting with the Doolittle Raider Association to prepare for an announcement regarding finding this B-25B intact in a Russian scrap yard. I have spoken to members of the Doolittle Raider association who have told me there is no validity to these rumors. I'd file this in the urban legend category. I'd love to presented evidence that I'm wrong, but I'll be surprised f anything more than rumors surface on this one.

Ryan

Last edited by rwdfresno on Sat Dec 08, 2012 8:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.

[ktst97]

I havn't heard about this, but how many B-25's crash-landed in water that could be intact?

York's aircraft, B-25B 40-2242, did not crash-land in water. It was flown to Russia, and landed approximately 40 miles north Vladivostok. The aircraft was retained by the Russians, and allegedly was scrapped in 1950s.

[cooper9411]

Browsing through the aircraft records shows that most of the aircraft were abandoned before complete fuel exhaustion. One of the B-25's was ditched off of the coast of China. That one probably is still some what intact on the bottom. From what I've heard all the others that crashed on land, were cut up and scrapped by locals. Allegedly the one that landed in Russia was cut up in the 50's! Would not surpise me if it still existed in a museum over there without anyone really knowing that it was part of the raid!

[maxum96]

Someone call TIGHAR. I'm sure there's a jar of freckle cream with it to prove it's a Doolittle B-25 that was being flown by Amelia after they plucked her off the island on their way to Japan.

[Dan Jones]

York's B-25 might have been TIGHAR's first objective, if I remember correctly.

[Noha307]

I know we'd all love for this rumor to be true, but I find it highly doubtful.

It was claimed on his forum that the NMUSAF was quietly meeting with the Doolittle Raider Association to prepare for an announcement regarding finding this B-25B intact in a Russian scrap yard.

Who is "his" you are referring to?

York's B-25 might have been TIGHAR's first objective, if I remember correctly.

Are you being serious? I can never tell with all the TIGHAR sarcasm on this forum.

Just for anyone who's interested, here's a photo of Doolittle's B-25 after it "landed". I can't even tell which end is which.

[JohnH]

I havn't heard about this, but how many B-25's crash-landed in water that could be intact?

York's aircraft, B-25B 40-2242, did not crash-land in water. It was flown to Russia, and landed approximately 40 miles north Vladivostok. The aircraft was retained by the Russians, and allegedly was scrapped in 1950s.

darn... How stupid.

[Dan Jones]

Yup - on the level. I think the first time I ever heard of TIGHAR they were talking about York's B-25. No idea what they came up with about it, though. But we're talking probably 30-ish years ago...

Dan

Last edited by Dan Jones on Mon Dec 10, 2012 6:45 am, edited 1 time in total.

[JDK]

Would not surpise me if it still existed in a museum over there without anyone really knowing that it was part of the raid!

That would require there to be currently an a) an unknown museum and b) people not knowing the value of even a vanilla B-25 to the US dollar market. If it's not known in a memorial, by now, or shown at Monino, it's not there.

The hypothesis might've had some credibility during the Cold War behind the iron curtain in that era, but since? No.

Allegedly the one that landed in Russia was cut up in the 50's!

And why not? It was (to the Russians) junk. I know through my researches that the Russians had a complete Supermarine Walrus sold to them after the PQ 17 convoy, and documented in Vladivostok. The British went to great trouble to get them a new Pegasus engine through the southern European supply route. The chances of the two being brought together from Southern Russia to Northern Russia are minute. Could the Russians have operated it? Theoretically, but actually no. Certainly as a Walrus watcher, I'd love it to 'turn up in a shed' somewhere, but it's certain (though I have no proof) that it was scrapped sometime, probably after the war.

Regards,

[rwdfresno]

I know we'd all love for this rumor to be true, but I find it highly doubtful.

It was claimed on his forum that the NMUSAF was quietly meeting with the Doolittle Raider Association to prepare for an announcement regarding finding this B-25B intact in a Russian scrap yard.

Who is "his" you are referring to?

It was a typo. It should have read "this" instead of "his." It has been corrected.

[DaveM2]

An old chestnut and discussed from the earliest days of what is now called WIX. I posted a detailed reply to the query from my Russian friends who have researched it. As far as they can ascertain it was destroyed in an hangar fire in the 1950s.

Plenty of famous aircraft deliberately destroyed in the US, UK, OZ, NZ etc in the 1950s, so no use blaming the Russians for doing the same. Very few knew then what we know now sadly. Hindsight and all that....

[Dan Jones]

That's true - Guy Gibson's Lancaster was scrapped after the war. So was JE Johnson's Spitfire IX.

Tragic.

[catch 22]

Guys, here are 2 photos of Capt. Edward York's B-25, s/n 40-2242 on the next day after landing in Russia, Apr.19 1942. The landing place is called Unashi ("Golden Valley" in the native language, not in Russian) and was a military base. As per Soviet documents the "Mitchell" was intercepted by 2 I-15bis from the 39-th Fighter Regiment and was forced to land at the Unashi airbase.
The Soviets flew the a/c many times until 1949 and later eventually cannibalized and scraped it .


York's route was in fact much much shorter, but there is some information, that this particular a/c had different carburetors and the fuel consumption was higher. This had to be the official explanation for the changed route.

That York spoke Russian and was the guy, who met the Soviet officials visiting the USA to contract "Mitchells" (and other a/c) for the USSR is a well known fact, so probably his choice was not incidental.
I also red a while ago (maybe 2 years or so ago - it's for sure not the latest rumour!) that "somewhere in Russia" (it's always somewhere in one of the biggest countries on earth, it's never "somewhere in Malta or Lichtenstein" ) one of the engines was found in a scrap yard (?!? ) - I really don't think it's for real. But who knows after all....
Cheers!