Re: UH-1 Hueys stored in Melbourne, FL
Wed Nov 14, 2012 5:17 pm
Wildchild wrote:I'll take 5.
4 for parts
How much $$ ya got... here's 17 (4th pic down):
http://www.nwhelicopters.com/nwh/index. ... ainmenu-88
Re: UH-1 Hueys stored in Melbourne, FL
Wed Nov 14, 2012 5:29 pm
ZRX61 wrote:Wildchild wrote:I'll take 5.
4 for parts
How much $$ ya got... here's 17 (4th pic down):
http://www.nwhelicopters.com/nwh/index. ... ainmenu-88
If the blades weren't getting harder to find my family would seriously buy one. Love how you can hear them a mile away
Re: UH-1 Hueys stored in Melbourne, FL
Wed Nov 14, 2012 5:31 pm
Wildchild wrote:If the blades weren't getting harder to find my family would seriously buy one. Love how you can hear them a mile away
What about the composite (kaman?) blades?
Re: UH-1 Hueys stored in Melbourne, FL
Wed Nov 14, 2012 5:32 pm
ZRX61 wrote:Wildchild wrote:If the blades weren't getting harder to find my family would seriously buy one. Love how you can hear them a mile away
What about the composite (kaman?) blades?
Are they the same model blades or are they smaller?
Re: UH-1 Hueys stored in Melbourne, FL
Wed Nov 14, 2012 5:33 pm
I'm not sure, I know they use them on Cobras.
Re: UH-1 Hueys stored in Melbourne, FL
Wed Nov 14, 2012 5:49 pm
The blades have to be available. There is an outfit local to me that is/was refurbing a batch for the Afghans. Evidently they deal with the altitude better than a UH-60 and are much simpler to maintain under primitive conditions.
Re: UH-1 Hueys stored in Melbourne, FL
Wed Nov 14, 2012 6:03 pm
Local college aviation program has a B model that had *something important* cut to render it flightless (altho I've seen it hover). There's a spare set of blades in a crate laying about the campus someplace.
Re: UH-1 Hueys stored in Melbourne, FL
Wed Nov 14, 2012 7:55 pm
shrike wrote:The blades have to be available. There is an outfit local to me that is/was refurbing a batch for the Afghans. Evidently they deal with the altitude better than a UH-60 and are much simpler to maintain under primitive conditions.
We know they still make them, the issue for us is price. Plus, with the economy, fuel.
Re: UH-1 Hueys stored in Melbourne, FL
Sat Nov 17, 2012 9:36 pm
Searched on the GSA auction site, no hueys...
Re: UH-1 Hueys stored in Melbourne, FL
Sun Nov 18, 2012 12:31 am
ZRX61 wrote:Local college aviation program has a B model that had *something important* cut to render it flightless (altho I've seen it hover). .
Huh?...and I'm a helicopter pilot.
If it was flightless, it couldn't hover.
And I don't know of anything they could cut (and the choices are pretty limited...a driveline, rotor mast, blade spar) and it would still be able to hover.
Re: UH-1 Hueys stored in Melbourne, FL
Sun Nov 18, 2012 11:09 am
In the early days we were required to cut a structural member and then paint the cut red. This was usually something that could be accessed through the "heck" hole. As to how much it really affected flight characteristics; I couldn't say. It was more of technicality than anything else.
However; there was an instance of an organization selling a donated bird. That bird crashed and it was discovered in the investigation that it had been a "demiled" bird. After that we changed our demil policy.
The policy for awhile was to remove the data plate and the PC links on the Huey. The PC links were replaced with a nonadjustable bar.
After awhile we just removed the data plate and let the receiving entity comply with the TACOM regs. Such as removing all POL from the aircraft. Mind you all aircraft donated to a Military base/unit fall under different regs. These aircraft are essentially complete.
However; there was an instance of an organization selling a donated bird. That bird crashed and it was discovered in the investigation that it had been a "demiled" bird. After that we changed our demil policy.
The policy for awhile was to remove the data plate and the PC links on the Huey. The PC links were replaced with a nonadjustable bar.
After awhile we just removed the data plate and let the receiving entity comply with the TACOM regs. Such as removing all POL from the aircraft. Mind you all aircraft donated to a Military base/unit fall under different regs. These aircraft are essentially complete.
Re: UH-1 Hueys stored in Melbourne, FL
Sun Nov 18, 2012 4:43 pm
JohnB wrote:ZRX61 wrote:Local college aviation program has a B model that had *something important* cut to render it flightless (altho I've seen it hover). .
Huh?...and I'm a helicopter pilot.
If it was flightless, it couldn't hover.
And I don't know of anything they could cut (and the choices are pretty limited...a driveline, rotor mast, blade spar) and it would still be able to hover.
"flightless" as in there's no way it could be signed off to fly legally/safely. I'm not sure what they cut, but apparently it was something important... At least that's the story....
It could be a mythical *cut* as they got the Huey with the provision they absolutely didn't try to fly it.
Next time I"m out there I'll ask very pointed questions to find out what the score is.
Re: UH-1 Hueys stored in Melbourne, FL
Sun Nov 18, 2012 5:01 pm
The 'cut' could also be a mod to the internals of the fuel control that would allow spool up but not enough torque to maintain lift out of ground effect, a drop of solder in an internal passage would do that nicely.
Re: UH-1 Hueys stored in Melbourne, FL
Sun Nov 18, 2012 5:06 pm
It's at an A&P school, if it was something simple I'm sure they could fix it.
Re: UH-1 Hueys stored in Melbourne, FL
Sun Nov 18, 2012 7:33 pm
All Aircraft donated for instructional and display purposes are donated on a DA 1348-6. Essentially they are retained by the Army and are only on restricted loan. The provisions are pretty strict. No flying and no "parting out".
There are a few aircraft out there that slipped though an interesting loop. In the early days Aircraft, Tanks, and whatnot were transferred directly from Federal to State control. Meaning the state owned the Aircraft outright. When the Aircraft became surplus and a local entity requested a display item, it was sometimes the case that the Aircraft or other item was transferred in such a way that the receiving entity owned that item; instead of just having the item on long term loan. This was due to the fact that the State had different requirements for disposal than the Federal Government.
There were also cases where States transferred the display item and lost the paperwork. Having taken the data plate(s); there was on way for TACOM to assert ownership.
When I did a survey of TACOM owned assets a few years back we discovered a few interesting things. There were records of Aircraft and Tanks that had been donated and were no longer at the location they were supposed to be at. Not as many as you might think; probably around 5%. And some of those had been "legacy items". We were able to account for all the Tanks and Cannon. Most had been sold for scrap and were documented. A few "casually" transferred to another VFW/American Legion, ect. There were a few Aircraft that just "disappeared" or were "parted out".
I recall one in Central Georgia that the local VFW sold parts off of for "beer money". It was not much more than a shell when we took it back. They honestly felt that they owned it and could do with it as they pleased.
There was another Huey in Ohio that was really well taken care of but my "bosses boss" had a problem with the fact that the "owning" organization would take it out on a dolly and put it in parades and on display at local events. I thought it was kinda cool. But the Colonel was being uptight. The problem was that there was no paper trail for that Aircraft. And no way to determine it's correct serial number; as it had been repainted with the serial number of bird from Vietnam.
I was also alerted to an M-42 duster in a Junk Yard; that had been there for years. The owner of the yard had legally obtained possession by bidding on it for scrap. A thorough review of the paperwork revealed an interesting loophole. He couldn't sell the Duster, but there was no provision for him requiring him to actually scrap it; in a specific time period. I did however demill the guns as potentially functional 40mm's fell under a different reg. But it was either that or a visit by the ATF.
It is things like these three cases which have led to such stringent demilling and donation requirements.
There are different sets of regs for Display birds, Museum birds and Instructional Airframes. Some Museum birds can be flown. But those are usually birds whose titles have been transferred.
As an aside it is just not Civilians that can sometimes have Aircraft for which there is no paper trail. I was at a major Army Base, in the south, that had a UH-1V; that was listed as having been scrapped. Yet there it was; being used as a training aid by the Regional Training Institute.
There are a few aircraft out there that slipped though an interesting loop. In the early days Aircraft, Tanks, and whatnot were transferred directly from Federal to State control. Meaning the state owned the Aircraft outright. When the Aircraft became surplus and a local entity requested a display item, it was sometimes the case that the Aircraft or other item was transferred in such a way that the receiving entity owned that item; instead of just having the item on long term loan. This was due to the fact that the State had different requirements for disposal than the Federal Government.
There were also cases where States transferred the display item and lost the paperwork. Having taken the data plate(s); there was on way for TACOM to assert ownership.
When I did a survey of TACOM owned assets a few years back we discovered a few interesting things. There were records of Aircraft and Tanks that had been donated and were no longer at the location they were supposed to be at. Not as many as you might think; probably around 5%. And some of those had been "legacy items". We were able to account for all the Tanks and Cannon. Most had been sold for scrap and were documented. A few "casually" transferred to another VFW/American Legion, ect. There were a few Aircraft that just "disappeared" or were "parted out".
I recall one in Central Georgia that the local VFW sold parts off of for "beer money". It was not much more than a shell when we took it back. They honestly felt that they owned it and could do with it as they pleased.
There was another Huey in Ohio that was really well taken care of but my "bosses boss" had a problem with the fact that the "owning" organization would take it out on a dolly and put it in parades and on display at local events. I thought it was kinda cool. But the Colonel was being uptight. The problem was that there was no paper trail for that Aircraft. And no way to determine it's correct serial number; as it had been repainted with the serial number of bird from Vietnam.
I was also alerted to an M-42 duster in a Junk Yard; that had been there for years. The owner of the yard had legally obtained possession by bidding on it for scrap. A thorough review of the paperwork revealed an interesting loophole. He couldn't sell the Duster, but there was no provision for him requiring him to actually scrap it; in a specific time period. I did however demill the guns as potentially functional 40mm's fell under a different reg. But it was either that or a visit by the ATF.
It is things like these three cases which have led to such stringent demilling and donation requirements.
There are different sets of regs for Display birds, Museum birds and Instructional Airframes. Some Museum birds can be flown. But those are usually birds whose titles have been transferred.
As an aside it is just not Civilians that can sometimes have Aircraft for which there is no paper trail. I was at a major Army Base, in the south, that had a UH-1V; that was listed as having been scrapped. Yet there it was; being used as a training aid by the Regional Training Institute.