Is the A-36 an Apache or a Mustang?

[Glenn Wegman]

So, Jim, does that mean these were Maulers and not Mustangs?

[JimH]

Certainly fits thier record! love the sign!

[JDK]

Copied from another thread;

While we're here, Stephan, could you please post what you feel is the appropriate element of your last comment to me re- source data on the A-36 & 'Apache' saga in that thread? There's more to be said, but you need to go first, surely. Ta!

Well, working from memory here--and the mind is the second thing to go...--you and I had been discussing the long-standing dispute over whether the North American A-36 should be called an Apache or a Mustang. We both agree that the airplane was never officially called an Apache, which is a name that was briefly given to the original Mustang by the North American marketing people when they were trying to sell it to the British, and it was a name that was abandoned months before the A-36 was ever built.

I had been pretty much convinced that "Apache" was a phony name that had sprung up during the late 1970s and early '80s among model-builders and had become a minor urban legend because it was repeated in modeling-magazine articles and ultimately a Squadron Signal "Mustang in Action" book.

But then I talked to Rob Collings, of the Collings Foundation, because it was his A-36 that I was writing about for Aviation History magazine, and I asked him what -he- called his airplane.

"What do you call an F-16?" he asked me in response.

"A Viper, of course," knowing full well that its official name was Fighting Falcon, though that sounds like a member of a high-school football team.

"Exactly," Rob said, "and every former A-36 pilot and ground crew member that I've talked to said they called the A-36 an Apache or an Invader [which is another story]."

His point was that maybe an airplane gets named by the people who operate it, not the air force that flies it or the company that makes it, which is certainly the case with the F-16 and very well may be the case with the A-36. Collings's final words were that he's going to reserve judgement until he talks to more A-36 veterans, but at this point, those that he has questioned all have said that they called the airplane either an Apache (most of them) or an Invader.

At least that's what I think I wrote to you...

[Dan Johnson II]

1941 published kids book on warplanes. Yes I know this isn't an A-36

Just [pointing out the 1941 use of Apache with the 51

[airnutz]

What a great thread this has been! A thorough gathering of different references. It really ought to be linked or added to Scott's
P-51 resource page. Thanks folks!

[Stephan Wilkinson]

Right, that's an example of the North American marketing department's brief use of the Apache name to try and sell its P-51 fighter to the British, as I mentioned above.

[RobC]

Interesting question. Who has naming rights? The company that built it called it "Apache". The customer who bought it called "Mustang". By that logic, if I bought a product from a company called Apple, that built it and called it an I-Pad, but I decided to call it a "Job's Special"... is it an I-pad or a Job's Special?

Being partial to Yales, I noticed that Taigh's document says that both the BT-9 and BT-14 are Yales. That is a new one to me. My understanding up until today was that the Yale was the name the British applied to the NA-64, which was neither a BT-9 or a BT-14. My conclusion is that this document set forth a policy from that time forward, very much the same that a P-51 became an F-51 after the war. In no way are these decisions retroactive.

[Stephan Wilkinson]

But North American never named the A-36 an Apache; that's what we've been talking about.

North American -briefly- named the earliest P-51 fighter "Apache" as part of a marketing program. That name was discontinued before the A-36 ever existed.

Read the thread: North American named the A-36 a Mustang. So if you're talking about naming rights, the company that built it named it Mustang.

[RobC]

nevermind.

[PinecastleAAF]

Then there is the Mustang-Apache hybrid known as the Mustache. They sell rides.

[mike furline]

Then there is the Mustang-Apache hybrid known as the Mustache. They sell rides.

Mustache rides!!! Where do I sign up?

[C VEICH]

Then there is the Mustang-Apache hybrid known as the Mustache. They sell rides.

Mustache rides!!! Where do I sign up?

[RickH]

TMI, Mike !

[davidbray]

I looked last night in my recognition books (both '43) and one listed the NAA name as Apache for the P-51, the British called it the Mustang. That book had no reference to the A-36. The second book listed it as an Apache, no mention of Invader in either book. If only I had a '44 book.

[CoastieJohn]

Considering the time period, is it possible 1940's era PC-ism may have influenced the confusion in the various names that are out there?