Warbird Information Exchange

I've been going to shows since the late 60's, when I was just a wee lad - I remember the Angles flying Phantoms on the edge of my memory ,,, And back in those days, you could literally sit right at the end of the runway if so inclined, and we often did.
I was hooked early, and saw some amazing shows. London, Ontario was tops, they for years had a jaw dropping lineup which often included nearly every jet in the inventory, including heavies.
Saw the last ever FB-111 demo there, and they had a "gathering of Eagles" one year, had about 25 F-15's, most of them E's.

Ypsi's shows indeed used to be somewhat lame. I remember the Italians, with the vivid smoke.
One year they shifted the crowd line for some reason, right after 9/11. They had the crowd on the tarmac, boiling hot day, no shade available of course ,,, And were selling water for $5 a bottle - This was right around when most shows stopped letting you bring in coolers, so you were forced to pay. I felt raped, and felt leaving a crowd to bake on the tarmac was a supremely boneheaded move.
People were actually crowding under the wings of aircraft for a little relief.
Started watching shows from the outside after that, though this year I'll probably go inside for at least one of the days.
Have a safe trip, and you are right, doesn't hurt to dream - In fact, I have literally dreamed of some of the best air shows imaginable, including multiple, high speed fly bys by aircraft like B-58's and SR-71's.

[Here is a thread from not too long ago just about that]
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=44675

I went to a lot of shows when I was a kid but I just can't remember them that well until the mid 1980s. I went to Dayton in 1985 - both Snowbirds and Blue Angels were there, Blue Angels just had their crash over Niagra Falls and this was the last show I seen them using the A-4s. Blue Angels went on early. Basically what else I can remember are from old photos - I remember A-7s and F-4s strafing in a mock battle, Golden Knights still had the C-7 Caribou. There was a B-52 fly by and a fly by of Florida National Guard F-106s (I would have thought Ohio National Guard, but it had the lightning symbol on the tail like Florida).

I been to one of the London Airshows - I want to say either 1988 or 89 I would have been 13-14. I remember a flight of 4 F-15s from Georgia flying by and landing, of course the Snowbirds, F-111 demo, NATO E-3 fly by, C-130 I want to say from Germany. I remember a great static display and I swear that there was an F-104 Starfighter there probably from either Luftwaffe or RCAF if they still had them by then. I wish I could find the old program because I went to the different planes and had the pilots autograph them on their plane type in the pictures of the program.

Selfridge used to have really good shows too in the 1980s and 1990s. In the 1980s I used to watch them from my uncle's boat on Lake St. Claire, I went to a few in the 1990s early 2000s but they got kinda lame the last couple years too - more trick planes than anything.

Jacksonville NAS still puts on a good show. I went in 2010 and 2011. They had a lot of military jets go up and some good warbirds too. 2010 - F-4, F-16, A-10 individual demos, then the 3 of them went with a P-51 for a heritage flight. F-18 demo and legacy with Corsair. Last year they had 2 F-4s there, an A-4/Corsair legacy flight, P-3 demo. The static display is often kind of disappointing, but who hasn't the last few years???? Dayton static last year was a joke - they used to fill the ramp, it sat half empty. Same with MacDill in Tampa - they used to fill their ramp with some cool and rare stuff but it was 3/4 empty last year

I never got to see a B-58 or SR-71 fly.

Doubt if there are many who have seen a B-58 or SR-71 in the air.
I have seen most military jets in the air, never saw an F-105 though, to my regret.
Not many of them made [less than 1,000], lost half of those in Vietnam, and they were phased out fairly quickly. I remember seeing one on static at Selfridge in the mid 1980's.

Selfridge indeed had some great shows, but have taken a down turn, like just about everyone else.
They are severely hampered by terrible access .... Last time I tried to go on base for a show, I got off the exit ramp about 11am, and joined a mind blowing swarm trying to get on base. Only about 3 miles to the base from the ramp, but the pace was slower than a crawl, I didn't make it to the gates until around 3pm, when the Blues were taking off.
They closed the gates about 10 cars behind me, and rejected 1,000's of people who had waited hours to get it.
Every since that bad experience, I have watched the shows from outside, I know that area very well, and have spots picked out with the best possible few, right on the approach.

In the late 1980's, Selfridge actually had a flag exercise, called "Wolverine Flag".
That was incredible, far better than any air show. F-4's, F-5's, F-15's, F-16's, F-18's, F-14's, Harriers, A-7's, tankers, AWACS, and some Tornadoes from Italy & UK, swarms of them, taking off and landing in gaggles all day long, I think it lasted a week. I was there for 3 of the days, best air action I have ever seen, or will ever see.
I recall about 2 dozen Harriers taking off, came back about 45 min later and did high speed passes in 2's, all in a line.
They landed, then a bunch of Tornadoes came in and did touch & goes. An F-14 over the nearby lake messed up during a high speed pass and went supersonic, one of the few times I have ever heard a sonic boom.
Swarms of Phantoms, sometimes in pairs, sometimes by the dozens. We saw about 20 Phantoms taxiing our way, which we thought meant they'd be taking off the other way [most aircraft land and take off the same way all day long, some for whatever reasons did not]. We preferred to be on the takeoff end, so we rushed down the freeway to the other side ... Only to see that they had looped back down, and were spotted for takeoff on the side we just left.
We rushed back, but only in time for the last couple pairs.

Later that day, I saw a pair of USMC Phantoms spotted for takeoff, and alerted my crew of about 6 guys, uncles and cousins. Was a hot day, and with the heat mirages and smoke on the runway, it was hard to see anything on the other end, even with binocs. You could see their wheel light when they were pointed right at you, and maybe make out enough shape to determine aircraft type.
So this pair of F-4's comes charging down the runway and, as always with Phantoms, they didn't disappoint. They always were low, loud and smoky ,,, And we shifted our feet and turned with them to watch their turning climb out towards the lake.
What we didn't know was there was actually a 3rd Phantom about 10 seconds behind the pair, impossible to see or hear him with all the noise, smoke and heat. Still watching the first 2 climb towards the lake, I caught some motion in my peripheral vision to my right and snapped my head that way - Just in time to see a dangerously low Phantom bearing down on us. He was near the end of the runway and barely off the ground ,,, I didn't have time to do much. I smacked my uncle, was like everyone else was watching the other 2 Phantoms, on the back, to give him a warning, and dove for the ground. When I smacked him he looked back at me, saw me hit the deck, and automatically did the same, without even knowing what was coming. I rarely ever cover my ears, but I knew this was going to be ear shattering, but I had my WW2 binocs and didn't want to drop them, so I covered one ear with my free hand, and tried to jam my shoulder into my other ear as I rolled around to my back - Yes, I actually wanted to see something here, I was considering the possibility that this might be the last thing I see.
Alls I saw was the dirty underside of a navy Phantom like I've never seen it before ,, We were literally right on the end on the runway, in front of the landing lights. I could of course count every rivet, as I saw the tailhook flash by I closed my eyes and turned my head away by instinct, knowing I'd be shortly blasted by a hot wash of jet exhaust very soon. Was enough to singe the hair off our arms, and we wreaked of JP-4 the rest of the day.
There was an 8 ft perimeter fence about 20 ft behind us, which surrounds the entire base.
I estimate he cleared that fence maybe by 10/15 ft, which would have put him about 20/25 ft over us. Worse than even us, there was a group of people, including a young lady, who were right across the small 2 lane road which runs parallel, and into, the base. They were sitting on top of a van, and were all involuntarily blasted off it by this awesome machine. I ran over to see if any were injured, I helped the girl up. She got up and fell right back down, she was trying to speak but only made mouth motions and gestures. Obviously traumatized, they piled in the van and sped away.

After that, and every since, we stayed off to the side of airstrips. I found that, in addition to being slightly safer, you also got a better view of the aircraft.

All air force base shows I have been to are very slow going usually due to lack of exits. MacDill AFB Tampa is just as bad if not worse than Selfridge when exiting. I have a back way of entering MacDill that gets me into the show pretty quick, but I can't use it exiting so it takes forever to get out of there. Last November I left well before the Thunderbirds went up because I figured I could beat the crowds and had no use in watching the Thunderbirds looking into the sun, plus I usually see them 2-3 times a year. It still took me hour and a half to get out. The only show at a base I didn't have traffic problems in was NAS Jacksonville. I got there right at 8am when the gates opened (after driving 3 hours from Orlando) and got right in no problem yet still seemed to park a mile from the main show area. The weather was terrible too - it was a November show but it was a high in the upper 50s, low ceiling and very windy and I wasn't dressed warm enough for it because forecast said partly cloudy and high of 70. I left the show before the Blue Angels went up (was exiting during Fat Albert) - again since I am a photographer, the Blue Angels would just look like shadows due to the overcast - if it was sunny it would be perfect since you face north. I seen the Blue Angels already 4 times earlier that year - 3 at Sun N Fun and 1 at Thunder Over Michigan plus a partial practice that was canceled due to a storm there. That was a busy airshow weekend in Florida - I went to Cocoa Beach Friday for the practice show, Saturday Jacksonville and Sunday Tampa MacDill. I needed to get back to Orlando so I could get to MacDill next day - no wait getting out of JAX.

The last Selfridge show I went to was 2009, weather sucked big time. Had 3-4 rain showers go through and it was chilly and that ended up cancelling a lot of the acts that were supposed to go up. There was supposed to be a Mig-15 and F-86 dogfight, which never happened. The T-2 didn't go up. It took us 2 hours to get in and we got there before the show was supposed to start around 9:30am, but by the time we got in several of the planes were already going up - mostly the base stuff like the KC-135, A-10s, Chinooks, which was mostly what I wanted to see. The traffic wasn't too bad at the I-94 exit, it didn't get too bad until you got on the base - but they sent us all the way to the back and it did take 2 hours. I don't think they had the south access opened up like they used to from Clinton River Rd - they used to have that entrance in the 1990s.

I went to pretty much almost every Selfridge Show during the 1980s, 90s early 2000s as they were usually every other year. Some we watched from my uncle's boat either on Lake St. Claire or on Clinton River. I was on my ex girlfriend's boat in 1998 show. I watched the 1994 show from inside when that T-33 crashed during the show.

We get a good show here in Orlando every couple of years if you like transports. They have the Military Transport and Tanker Convention here every couple years - the day before the convention starts and the day it ends military transports arrive every 15 minutes at MCO - various types of C-130s, C-17s, KC-135s, KC-10s, C-5s the previous time but didn't see any in 2010 as well as C-40s, a C-9 as well as the smaller jet types. We were busier than most bases those 2 days.

As far as the dream lineup for TOM I got mine this year with the P-51s. I only wish they could have added about 10 more. This is the first time I have ever done the taxiway photography and the first time doing the photo tour both days.

Yeah it is cool because there are a lot of Mustangs coming that I haven't seen before, but would have been awesome if it could have been a turnout like those Gatherings of Mustangs and Legends shows.

No B-58 - but SR-71: Mildenhall and Farnborough in the 1980s. A visceral experience to witness the take-off.

_________________
James K

"Switch on the underwater landing lights"
Emilio Largo, Thunderball.

www.VintageAeroWriter.com

Blackbirds appeared reliably at shows for a few years in the late 80s and early 90s, so literally millions have seen them. I caught a nice display at March AFB once; and at least once one flew at Oshkosh, which is pretty well attended.

August

Well 20 years since the early 90's means there are millions of people today who weren't around then or weren't old enough then to have gone to or remember an air show then. I saw SR-71's fly starting in the early 70's at Andrews. I think a Desert Storm aerial victory parade in Washington DC in June 1991 was the last time I saw one. In addition to the Blackbird and a B-52 there were multiple 4-ship flybys of aircraft like the F-117, F-111, EF-111, A-10, F-15, F-16, A-6, F-14, A-7 and several other types.

Of course the Blackbird that I saw at Andrews in Sept. 1972 was part of a USAF 25th Anniversary celebration that included 4-ship takeoffs and flybys of the F-100, F-101, F-105, F-106, F-4, F-111, A-7D, and flybys of other Air Force aircraft in service at that time.

The only active Blackbird I ever saw was on static display at Dayton Air Show 1985, never got to see it fly at any airshow I went to. My buddy saw it fly over Wright Patt during an Air Force 40th Anniversary parade of flight. He also saw a B-58 land at Wright Patt AFB. once. The B-58 had less than a 10 year service life didn't it? I would have loved to have seen the B-36 too. I was fortunate enough to see the F-117A, F-14, F-4, A-7, F-106, F-111

Yes, the B-58 had a very short service life, less than 10 years from sometime in 1960 until January 1970. Unffortunately I don't recall ever seeing one fly. I went to an Air Show at McGuire AFB, NJ in May 1969 where one of the last operational ones was on static display, but didn't see it fly. I did get to see a 4-ship formation of F-84F Thunderstreaks from the Virginia ANG fly by during that air show and a simulated refueling of an F-105B by a KC-97L. The B-36 is the one aircraft I wish I could have seen fly more than any other.

A C-97 is another I would have liked to see. I got lucky enough to see it but too young to appreciate it. I was in Miami and the last flying operator of the C-97 was a Dominican cargo company called Agro Air that used to fly between MIA and Santo Domingo. I was lucky enough to see one land in 1990 at MIA

2009 Selfridge show did suck, pretty much one shower moved out, another would move in.
They had a B-1 orbiting to the north for nearly an hour waiting to do a couple passes, while some stunt flyers were droning over the field during a break in the weather.
I heard the guy call in on my scanner, in that unmistakable military tone, something like "Selfridge tower, this is Death 2-9. Any idea when we can get in there and do a pass ?". "Death 2-9, Selfridge tower, we'll get you in soon as the props are down".
I thought it was pretty ridiculous to have a heavy bomber flown in from Texas, only to have it stuck in a half hour holding pattern waiting for props to do their stunts - Apparently, the bomber pilot thought so as well. Struck me as amateurish, the heavy should have had priority.
TBirds went up in between storms, flew a great low show ,,, But a bit abbreviated.
Also unfortunately saw the fatal T-33 crash, also from inside.

Far as SR-71's at shows, I only saw one once, and sure not in the air. I would imagine they were static at the majority of shows they attended, and thus not all that many saw them in the air. Only saw a couple of U2's, for that matter. Have yet to see a drone !

As August posted, they were pretty regular at shows, flying, in the UK and US in the eighties and nineties. So for those of us old enough to vote and drink and understand that stuff, as well as remember punk rock, plenty of viewers of flights. I don't recall exactly, but certainly saw SR-71s three or more times flying.

Had several U2s at Mildenhall, also in the 1980s and saw one fly at least once in that era.

Drones? Waste of good airspace, or flightline static.

_________________
James K

"Switch on the underwater landing lights"
Emilio Largo, Thunderball.

www.VintageAeroWriter.com

I thought the Death Callsign was for the B-2, didn't know the B-1 had it also. I was upset with that show because they put up the prop acts, infact I think a couple went up twice that day if I am not mistaken - the Pitts with the Geico log and I think Gene Soucy (don't get me wrong I love the sound of an AgCat), but at the same time there were planes that didn't go up at all. There was an F-86 there I remember and I thought it was supposed to dog fight with a Mig-15. Will Ward's Mig-17 did make it up earlier between showers. There was also a T-2 Buckeye there that didn't go up. The B-1 pass with the pyros was cool though.

I seen videos of SR-71s flying airshows, just unfortunately not ones I was at.