43-2195 wrote:
Mark Allen M wrote:
They WONT be sitting at home watching their PC screens and waiting for GPS co-ordinates to be posted so they can try to Google Earth it and then go off to recover it.
43-2195 wrote:
Sorry Mark Allen M, not sure how your Name got at the top of that quote, I was refering to Mark Pilkington's post.
I've edited the original post to attribute the quote to the correct member.
Awaiting Shepsairs next post for any deterioration in the situation, or update of RAFM's approach.
Yes, I note you were quoting my words and apparantly incorrectly attributing them to someone else, thanks for correcting that in your original quoted post as well, I'm not quite sure how that can happen?, given quote tags are automatically system generated.
43-2195 wrote:
Mark, I have been in three different countries since I first posted on this thread. I know two Australian sheep station owners who are members of this Forum, as well as several property developers and a number of Airline pilots(like myself) who are members. I know a P-47 owner, 3 P-40 owners and a P-51 owner(syndicated, I think) who definitely read this forum and are probably registered members. So I think stereotyping a WIX member, would be a mistake.
However I also note you have above then gone on to apparantly accuse? me of "stereotyping a wix member" (or members?)?
I assume with my comment/opinion that serious pursuers/recoverers of this P-40, with the means/resources to do it will not still be sitting behind their PC screens waiting for GPS co-ordinates to be released, but instead will already be actively progressing negotiations.
- I stand by that view, those with the resources to do so will already be pursuing it, and will PM the sources direct if they want/need the GPS co-ordinates, and be already actively engaged with people in Egypt, they certainly WONT be still stilling in front of their PC screens thinking about it and waiting for someone to publicly post GPS co-ordinates.
The line you quote is taken out of context of the post it sits in and the line that immediately preceeds it:
Quote:
And those who "seriously" have the means and interest such as Paul Allen, Kermit Weeks etc if they were interested - would already be flying into Egypt in their private jets along with a fist full of dollars and an army of recovery employees and already negotiating with the Egyptian Military for access along with the RAFM or anyone else.
They WONT be sitting at home watching their PC screens and waiting for GPS co-ordinates to be posted so they can try to Google Earth it and then go off to recover it.
That goes for Paul Allen, Kermit Weeks as well as all the sheep station owners, property developers, and airline pilots you might know as WIX Members, and regardless of how many P-47s or P-51's that they may already own?, and I'm certainly not stereo-typing any of them? - I fail to see where I have done so?
My quote comes from this post, and I dont shy away from anything I stated in it, and happily stand behind it.
http://warbirdinformationexchange.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=45278&start=345#p457202It is a comment made primarily to bombardier29 in context and quoting his response to an earlier post by JDK, and in summary my statements are supporting the comments by JDK and disagreeing with those by bombardier29 in regards to the public release of the GPS co-ordinates, I can find nothing in it that impunes or stereo-types WIX members?, or bombardier29 personally?
As my post went on to say there is no need for those with the GPS co-ordinates to provide them to the rest of us, and they can release them privately and directly to whom ever they choose, in that way I am supportive of the comments made by Shay himself as to why he removed the co-ordinates from his post.
Those with the "resources" would simply approach Shay via PM directly.
I was certainly not making any comment at all on WIX members generally or specifically or even personally on those I was replying to, or stereotyping them. (I'm a WIX member myself) and am sure lots of capable and well resourced people are members or viewers of WIX and other forums.
The point I was, and am making, is that they dont sit around waiting for posts to online forums to finally deliver such information and opportunities to them on a plate.
Its nearly a month since photos first surfaced on the web of this discovery, and 3 months since its discovery in February and apparant approaches to and notification to the RAFM, there has been confirmation of a number of people returning to the site, and clear statements its under the supervision of the Egyptian Military. On the KP forum there is even briefings being released by those associated with the RAFM project.
Surely anyone with the real resources to pursue this, and the intention to do so, would be already deeply progressed in that process if they honestly expected to be first on the scene and able to finally secure control of it.
If there are multiple parties already negotiating with the Egyptian Government then thats up to the Egyptians to resolve, but if someones still sitting at their PC right now, having to wait for GPS co-ordinates to be made public on WIX and then still pondering if they "might" pursue it, then I dont think they can really be described as seriously "having the resources".
The Russian P-39 and B-17 Swamp Ghost you point to as examples are not projects that relied on discovery and information to be publicised on WIX or KP forums to have the people involved achieve those outcomes, as far as I am aware of?, and those were seriously resourced projects with years of planning and onsite negotiations.
While I support a RAFM/IWM recovery and conservation in this instance, I certainly appreciate the efforts and recoveries by private collectors of items such as the Russian P-39 and B-17 Swamp Ghost, which otherwise would be un-recovered, suffering further deterioration and the constant risk of scrapping and loss.
But in addition to first confusing "Mark Allen M" and "myself" in terms of quoting "my" words, I also think you are confusing my "opinions" and my "comments" in "my" posts with those made by others such as "old iron" relating to "American Cowboys" in their posts etc that you have seperately been replying to.
Hence I do think you are creating a "cross-over" of the multiple discussions you seem to be engaging in? and attributing and linking the words and opinions of "others" to my "quote" and "me" (or earlier to "Mark Allen M")
43-2195 wrote:
But my experience suggests that we should welcome with open arms; American cowboys, Canadian conmen, Australian circus clowns, anyone who has the passion and the MONEY to make things happen. I have for over 20 years observed the laws of Papua New Guinea and I have some beautiful photos of aeroplanes that no longer exist.
I actually agree with your above statement entirely, but have never used those terms or sentiments, and I assume this might be what you are referring as stereo-typing, but those comments seem to better relate to a pre-existing debate/conversation of posts that you were having with "old iron" and others including "Mark Allen M" that I was not engaged in or replying to, and appear to have no relevence to the words you quote from me, or my post they come from?
I think you previously replied in a similar way to this post by "old iron" who himself was also replying to bombardier29s quoted reply to JDK, however that is where the similarity and commonality with me stops.
old iron wrote:
Quote:
Did it ever occur to you that there might be other people with the means and interest to recover this airplane, beyond whatever club you obviously think you belong to?
There can be no better home for this than either the Imperial War Museum or the RAF Museum, and I think one or another of these is already working towards retrieval. The last thing we need is some group of American Cowboys to sweep in and really muddy the waters. This belongs in one of the big national UK museums and the rest of us should be lending support to that destination.
I certainly made no similar comment in my earlier post against the private collectors or restorers, other than to express support for this aircraft to conserved as a static display, rather than consumed into a flying restoration, and simply pointed out that the P-40 restoration industry has the skills to reproduce most of a P-40 from new metal in anycase, so that removing this example from the available market doesnt really limit another flying P-40 restoration.
If you are going to take issue with my, or the comments of others, then certainly correctly attribute the quote to the correct person who made it, but also please also read my comments in context of my entire post and the post it was quoting and replying to, and do not simply use "quotes" out of context and then extract meanings and interpretations from it that do not exist and then attribute or accuse them back to me, particularly if they originate or cross over from concurrent debates with others.
Perhaps if you are an airline pilot travelling through 3 different continents or countries since you last posted I can excuse you for having some jetlag and perhaps screen reading/posting and pasting issues if your accessing WIX via your I-Phone
but please dont put "words in my mouth", and dont put "my" words in "other peoples mouths" - smiles
I certainly reject any suggestion I was stereo-typing anyone in my post.
And yes, lets all get back to encouraging someone to secure the future of this very important and historic wartime artefact.
regards
Mark Pilkington
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I too am a property developer and a pilot and both stereotype me as one who is foolish with his money these days. I know a Piper cub owner, 3 Cessna 172 owners and a good barber (bilingual, I think) who definitely never read this or any other warbird forum 
