Any P-40 experts care to comment on this image?

The Inspector · **Posted:** Fri May 04, 2012 9:15 am

JDK wrote:

Mainly I fail to see any merit in starting a (potentially counter-productive to the Kittyhawk) debate on general group characteristics, or otherwise, here.

My original suggestion (all it can be) of thinking twice and not posting such remarks, stands.

Thanks.

Agree 100%, even simple words used everyday by one group can and are easily misconstrued or misinterpreted by other ethnic groups, sometimes purposely to 'wind up' the locals. So the less said, the less potential controversy.

43-2195 · **Posted:** Fri May 04, 2012 3:13 pm

The "New Valley" area of South West Egypt is over 400nm from El Alamein (and the coast). Could it have been lost on a Ferry? Seems to be along way away from where the action took place.

andyman64 · **Posted:** Fri May 04, 2012 5:57 pm

i am white and of British heritage i live in an area north of Trenton that is rife with people that would shoot bullet holes in a perfectly good airplane for no good reason! None of them are Arabic! the simple fact of the matter is the world is full of uneducated knuckle dragging neanderthals that think that wrecking and smashing stuff is fun!those of us that restore and nurture old machines are becoming fewer by the day it,s too hard to learn how to repair something and much easier to smash it! it has nothing to do with race and everything to do with lack of education and appreciation of the engineering that is required to design and make work even the simplest pieces of machinery!

JDK · **Posted:** Fri May 04, 2012 6:21 pm

43-2195 wrote:

The "New Valley" area of South West Egypt is over 400nm from El Alamein (and the coast). Could it have been lost on a Ferry? Seems to be along way away from where the action took place.

It's pretty certain from the evidence in the images that the aircraft was crashlanded with the undercarriage (gear) down, always advised as a inadvisable choice in such circumstances, so there would be some over-arching reason the pilot did that. The current most likely conclusion it matches a missing aircraft that was being ferried with undercarriage fixed down, away from the German advance.

HTH.

Shay · **Posted:** Fri May 04, 2012 9:44 pm

For what it's worth, "IF" those coordinates that were posted (over on FP) were correct, before they were removed I plugged them into my copy of google earth. Last week I plugged in over 200 "Landing Grounds" coordinates. Now with regards to F/Sgt Copping's incident it was said he departed "LG-9" enroute for LG-100. Now after mapping out all the LG's it turns out there were two Landing Grounds with the designation #9. LG-09 and LG-009. LG-009 is located in Northern Egypt along the coast and LG-09 in central eastern Libya. The sparse details of the account lead one to beleive that the LG-9 in question is LG-009 along the northern coast and closest to LG-100. But the Kittyhawk coordinates provided are pretty close to a course I plotted from LG-09 to LG-100. Infact the deviation is only 13 miles which I would think is within tolerance. Thats a big desert and to be within 13 miles of the flightpath is (to me ) is a big coincidence. Just thought it might be worth mentioning.

Shay
____________
Semper Fortis

Wildchild · **Posted:** Fri May 04, 2012 9:52 pm

Im shocked he's only 14 miles away, since he was flying at night...

cooper9411 · **Posted:** Fri May 04, 2012 11:42 pm

lets all assume

Buz · **Posted:** Sat May 05, 2012 3:43 am

Guys

Just to clear something up, the flight was not at night. I know lots has been said and many assumptions made, but the wingman to Copping quoted the following "I checked my compass by the sun" as well as making other quotes about the position of the sun during his flight back to LG100 after turning away from Copping.

Not sure about Egypt but pretty sure most places in the world I have been the sun is not normally up at night, and another pilot of 260SQN quoted "landing by Moonlight" (for his evacuation flight to LG106) gives us some very nice clues that the evacuation was by night, whilst the Ferry flight by day.

Buz

43-2195 · **Posted:** Sun May 06, 2012 6:28 am

Shay, I'm not sure why the Moderator on the FP site removed AWOT's Co-ordinates. Seems he thinks it's okay for egyption truck drivers to know where it is, but not anyone with an interest in preserving historic aircraft. Or, it is an English site, perhaps he thinks the RAFM should have the rights. Either way it's insulting to the members. Would you be prepared to post them here? I put your 13 miles off track, LG009(185) to LG100 and cross referenced it to the southwesterly heading from LG106. I estimated an airspeed of 150 kts, with an endurance of about 2 hrs. Certainly puts it in the New Valley Area. Can you confirm that the 13 mile track error is North of Track?

peter · **Posted:** Sun May 06, 2012 9:59 am

I was the one that removed the co-ordinates on request.. I know it was a little late but the request was to try and stop all and sundry from finding the wreck and removing parts.. a little ironic in retrospect when you see how much damage has been done.. :drink3:

gary1954 · **Posted:** Tue May 08, 2012 7:15 am

peter wrote:

I was the one that removed the co-ordinates on request.. I know it was a little late but the request was to try and stop all and sundry from finding the wreck and removing parts.. a little ironic in retrospect when you see how much damage has been done.. :drink3:

Well now Mister....just put 'em back up :axe:

JDK · **Posted:** Tue May 08, 2012 7:42 am

Those with a serious interest as to the Kittyhawk's future know the coordinates.

groundpounder · **Posted:** Tue May 08, 2012 8:31 am

Sooooo...... We watch a video of theses guys destroying a cemetery with glee, and now we are asked to portray them as fine upstanding citizens so we can save an airplane.... and we wonder why the world is in the state that it is in today. Just a few things to ponder as you look in the mirror this morning.

StangStung · **Posted:** Tue May 08, 2012 9:13 am

groundpounder wrote:

Sooooo...... We watch a video of theses guys destroying a cemetery with glee, and now we are asked to portray them as fine upstanding citizens so we can save an airplane.... and we wonder why the world is in the state that it is in today. Just a few things to ponder as you look in the mirror this morning.

That was Libya -- this is Egypt. Kinda like Canada and the USA, they are different places with some similarities, but different people and traditions.

Be that as it may, there are knuckle-dragging hooligans everywhere. No country is immune. Some high schoolers in my home town got trashed and knocked over a bunch of tombstones as well. Clearly you can see my point.

We can only hope the people with the interest can get enough money to save it in time. If we knew who those people were, we might be able to contribute. Alas, it seems there's only conjecture to this point.

bombadier29 · **Joined:** Sun Jan 29, 2012 9:17 pm **Posts:** 272

JDK wrote:

Those with a serious interest as to the Kittyhawk's future know the coordinates.

The arrogance you display and your disdain for other people's opinions and comments, on this board and others, continues to amaze me.

Did it ever occur to you that there might be other people with the means and interest to recover this airplane, beyond whatever club you obviously think you belong to?

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