Corsair folding wings

[JDK]

Part of the reason the Royal Navy carriers had lower ceilings in the hangar deck was due to the heavily armoured flight deck, (which meant that none of these carriers were sunk or due to dive bombing, or kamikaze attacks, unlike US Carriers, which suffered greatly in those cases). They couldn't carry nearly as many aircraft though, which was a significant problem at times. Also, the Spitfire had folding wing tips as well as the main wing fold, so they could fit more easily in the carrier.

Yes I have talked with several Kiwis and Brits who were aboard fleet carriers which were hit by Kamikazes. Only one case of the stories I've heard did the ship list badly, etc but they soon regained control. In the other cases they said that the crews simply swept the Japanese mess off the deck, filled the slight dent with concrete to level it out again, and within an hour they were operating again. A huge advantage having the steel decks. I don't know why the US Navy went that way in WWII.

The RN armoured-deck carrier story is an interesting one. While all of the above is true, it's not often realised that several of the armoured carriers couldn't be refitted post-war because the ships were actually warped out of true, and as anyone knows whose dealt with an armoured structure, rebuilding them straight was just unviable.

See here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armoured_f ... r_analysis

Classic case of trade-offs, and ultimately an example of Napolion's 'big battalions' concept - the USN could build, refit and supply carriers at a rate the British Empire couldn't. In the end, it didn't matter whether the USN had armoured carriers or not - it was the supply of new and rebuilt materiel that mattered. In the short term, the RN's armoured carriers stayed in the battle and the war, and 'held the line', which was crucial then. The RN couldn't have afforded not to have had armoured carriers - the loss of the earlier, unarmoured carriers before the US entry to the war, and HMS Eagle soon after, were sore holes in the RN's capability.

And... a double-fold wing (such as the Seafire's) is a poorer engineering and performance solution to the lighter, simpler single fold. Of course Grumman's famous 'eraser & paperclip' fold seems to me the most neat solution.

http://heroicrelics.org/info/grumman-pa ... rclip.html

Regards,

[RMAllnutt]

F2G-1 PILOT MANUAL PAGE-

Paragraph on lower L/H column references lack of hyd wing fold on F2G-1.
Only other difference I remember is -1 had a 14' dia prop and -2 Carrier version specifies 13' 7" dia prop.

I have that manual too... it's fascinating! I wasn't disputing the F2G-1's had the wingfold system deleted, just the FG's.

Cheers,
Richard

[51fixer]

F2G-1 PILOT MANUAL PAGE-

Paragraph on lower L/H column references lack of hyd wing fold on F2G-1.
Only other difference I remember is -1 had a 14' dia prop and -2 Carrier version specifies 13' 7" dia prop.

I have that manual too... it's fascinating! I wasn't disputing the F2G-1's had the wingfold system deleted, just the FG's.

Cheers,
Richard

It was the only document that mentions a lack of that system in any of the Corsairs that I know of.
All of the others left the factory with them. It wouldn't make sense to remove any of it in the field as there are inter connected components to lock the wings down.
It isn't a one piece system but has valves, actuators, plungers, pins and a mechanical lock on the down lock pin that is hydraulically driven.

[zorro7]

F4U Folks:

Interesting subject!!

Does anyone know if the wings can also be folded manually on a F4U-5N aircraft? or if they are hydraulic operated only??

Tks in advance

[Mark Allen M]

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Last edited by Mark Allen M on Sun Sep 09, 2012 1:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.

[zorro7]

Mark:

Interesting photograph of an F4U taking off with a poss left wing folding! What is the story of this F4U?? Did the pilot make it?? How did it happen??

[51fixer]

F4U Folks:

Interesting subject!!

Does anyone know if the wings can also be folded manually on a F4U-5N aircraft? or if they are hydraulic operated only??

Tks in advance

Probably 3 original ways to power hyd system- engine driven pump, hand pump and electric driven pump. If the system in the A/C is intact and the hyd res serviced the hand pump should move the wings.
I would use a fork lift with some padding to back up the system in case it doesn't work properly or a seal fails. A falling wing is pretty dangerous.
Pretty much followndirections in the manuals. If you don't have a manualnthen don't try it.

[zorro7]

51 Fixer!

Nice data Tks!! We'll keep this info/data handy when the time comes to fold the second wing of FAH 609! Tks

Last edited by zorro7 on Mon Apr 30, 2012 8:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.

[Mark Allen M]

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Last edited by Mark Allen M on Sun Sep 09, 2012 1:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.

[mike furline]

Mark:

Interesting photograph of an F4U taking off with a poss left wing folding! What is the story of this F4U?? Did the pilot make it?? How did it happen??

Caption only states the pilot didn't make it out, nothing else

Not sure that the wing fold failed. I think I remember reading about an incident when the CAT shot was premature before the aircraft had the wings fully extended and locked.

[zorro7]

Mike:

The second version is what prob happened! Sorry to hear about that young pilot did not make it. Did the Navy take landing & take off shots all the time??

[Wilson]

"All operations with which I was involved were land-based ones where we never folded the wings. In two plus years of flying the Corsair I never once folded the wings, nor did any of my fellow pilots."

Wallace B. "Tommy" Thomson, VMF-211

From "Bent Wings - F4U Corsair Action and Accidents" by Fred Blechman. An enjoyable read made up of the recollections of 10 pilots involving 43 "incidents." Some involve combat, others are peacetime. You can pick up a copy on Amazon.

Thomson goes on to tell about how, as operations officer, he had to test fly a Corsair that had an outer wing panel replaced by mechanics from another squadron who had since rotated stateside. He discussed the steps he went through to check that the wing was locked. Then as he is heading down the runway, just about ready to rotate, the wing unlocks and starts slapping back and forth. He manages to miss a bunch of RNZAF P-40s at the other end of the runway loaded with thermite bombs and goes off into the swamp without anyone getting hurt. The Corsair is back flying in a few days.