New Airshow reg proposals

MX304 · **Posted:** Thu Oct 27, 2005 10:06 pm

This won't be good if it passes :evil:

http://eaa.org/communications/eaanews/0 ... tions.html

Eureka181 · **Joined:** Wed Jul 13, 2005 7:27 pm **Posts:** 182

That FAA makes me so mad! They already control too much of what we do, and now they want to put even more restrictions on airshows. I think the regulations for airshows are strict enough, if not too strict!

:finga:

the FAA.

Eric

Matt Gunsch · **Posted:** Fri Oct 28, 2005 12:07 am

The FAA is doing this to justify their exsistance. I built a homebuilt several yrs ago and had a placed on the panel with the following letters, FTFAA, I'll let you all figure it out.

Originalboxcar · **Posted:** Fri Oct 28, 2005 4:33 am

So this would impact the Thunderbirds and Blue Angles routines. Hmm, wonder what the recruiters thinks about this?

regards,

t~

TimAPNY · **Posted:** Fri Oct 28, 2005 7:17 am

I'm very glad that there is a group like the EAA, keep up the good work!

Mudge · **Posted:** Fri Oct 28, 2005 10:19 am

The stinkin' bureaucrats are of the opinion that they have to think up a law every day. It gives them the appearance of doing something. Logic doesn't enter into the process. I wonder how many people at the FAA are:
1) Pilots
2) Ever been to an airshow
3) Even know what an airshow is for

Mudge the cynic

skymstr02 · **Posted:** Fri Oct 28, 2005 10:27 am

I can't imagine a Tora show without oposing flight lines. The CAF Tora group has been doing their act for 30 years without a mid air.

Mudge · **Posted:** Fri Oct 28, 2005 12:53 pm

As I said in another post...The "Tora Group" can stay home as far as I'm concerned. All that smoke has fouled up more of my pictures than I care to remember. Just what is their "ACT" anyway?

Mudge the opinionated :shock:

mrhenniger · **Posted:** Fri Oct 28, 2005 1:01 pm

I have only seen the Tora act a few times and I think the last time was 1996. I was very impressed with the spectacle. I guess the point is to give the illusion of chaos so that someone might get a small taste of what it may have been like to be a Pearl on December 7th 1941. I remember seeing the act at Batavia during one the Wings of Eagles shows. I just stood and watched and didn't even try to get any pictures. I got so caught up with the smoke and activity that I didn't see Texas Raiders come into for the low pass with one wheel down until the last second, it blew me away. I very much enjoyed it. It would be a shame if this kind of display was prevented in the future.

Mike

Warbirdnerd · **Joined:** Fri Apr 30, 2004 7:34 pm **Posts:** 2923

I'd have to agree with Mike, but I am most certainly biased... :lol:

jaybird · **Posted:** Fri Oct 28, 2005 6:05 pm

While I've done no research to understand or discover the impedus for FAA Draft Order 8700.1, I would stake that it's a guaranteed bet that no actual airshow attendees voiced concern that they felt their safety was compromised by opposing aircraft at an airshow! Isn't it a government of the people for the people? What safety data would warrant such a change to long standing airshow operations? ...or is this a kneejerk action by someone not truely representing the airshow crowd?

It's also sad, but a very true fact that you have to fight using the "money trail" approach; ie: "What might seem to be minor changes could have substantial negative operational and financial implications on air show operations without a corresponding increase in safety," ...after all it's where it all stops.

Thank goodness for organizations like the EAA. There always seems to be good brain activity in that group.

Eric Friedebach · **Posted:** Fri Oct 28, 2005 7:31 pm

I’m sure ICAS is working on this as well. I’ll post any info from them that comes along.

tom d. friedman · **Posted:** Sat Oct 29, 2005 10:51 pm

the friggin land shark lawyers have sprouted wings..... now they are aerial vultures too!!!

Eric Friedebach · **Posted:** Thu Nov 03, 2005 6:29 pm

I had promised to share any news from ICAS when I receive it. The following was sent to me yesterday, but I forgot to post it here. Sorry!

Quote:

ICAS MAKES FINAL COMMENTS ON CHAPTER 49

In mid-October, ICAS finished reviewing and commenting on Chapter 49 of the FAA Field Inspector’s Handbook, the de facto regulations by which air shows are planned and conducted in the United States. ICAS first reviewed and commented on early drafts of Revision 23 of Chapter 49 in February of 2002. Since then, ICAS and its members have spent approximately 600 hours reviewing every sentence and every proposed change in six different versions of the document. This dramatically rewritten document is expected to become effective on January 1, 2006.

“Though it’s not the kind of thing we talk a lot about, this is one of the most important benefits that ICAS provides to its members,” said ICAS President John Cudahy. “We’ve been paying close attention to this issue for nearly four years. And, throughout the process, we’ve been mindful of the impact that these changes will have on safety and the effect that they may have on a member’s ability to go about his air show business.”

The new document includes many changes, some of which will significantly impact the manner in which air shows are conducted and some of which will effect how air show pilots fly specific maneuvers. These changes will be reviewed during a special one-hour educational session and again in a feature-length article in the first quarter, 2006 issue of Air Shows Magazine.

I also should note there was a time lag in communications with regards to the EAA Press Release. The whole matter has been resolved to the satisfaction of EAA as well as ICAS.

Warbirdnerd · **Joined:** Fri Apr 30, 2004 7:34 pm **Posts:** 2923

It is official!
Thank you EAA and ICAS!
From ANN:
FAA Largely Heeds EAA, ICAS Advice For Airshow Rules
New Guidelines Ease Regulations, Allow Greater Access

The FAA is close to
releasing its updated list of air show policies, and it appears the
agency has heeded nearly all of the recommendations presented by
the EAA and the International Council of Air Shows (ICAS).

"We are very pleased that FAA worked with EAA, the International
Council of Air Shows and other groups as the agency developed these
policy statements," said EAA VP of Industry and Regulatory Affairs
Earl Lawrence. "FAA has worked with air show and aerobatic groups
to maintain the best level of air show safety in the world, while
not causing unnecessary costs onto air show organizers or hampering
displays of historic and vintage aircraft."

According to an Experimental Aircraft Association release,
specific EAA recommendations accepted by the FAA include:
1) Allowing certain formation flights to enter the airspace from
different directions, when flying above 1,000 AGL. Many warbird air
shows use these formation flights, at stacked altitudes, during
their events.
2) Allowing working media photographers and videographers past the
air show crowd line under controlled procedures, so they may
capture images of aerial demonstrations not available to the
public.
3) Use of readily recognizable landmarks as corner markers for air
show and aerobatic airspace boxes when more practical and
identifiable.

Also accepted were recommendations in several administrative
areas, which clarify air show policy statements that could be
misinterpreted, according to the EAA.

EAA officials had
discussed air show issues with the FAA on several occasions over
the past year, including at a meeting between top FAA and EAA
officials during EAA AirVenture Oshkosh 2005. Those discussions
included such air show issues as airspace requirements, audience
overflights, essential personnel in aerobatic boxes, and media
access. EAA drew on its more than 50 years of fly-in and air show
experience, and its close working relationships with performers and
groups such as ICAS, when making its recommendations.

"FAA, EAA and the air show community will work as partners to
always make safety the top priority," Lawrence said. "When issues
do arise, the expertise of EAA and the air show community are
valuable resources for FAA to create practical solutions that keep
air shows the exciting and memorable entertainment they have
become."

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