Lockheed C60 Lodestar rescued from out of a junkyard

[carlisle1926]

Amazing how much is left in the cockpit! If it were mine, I'd cut it after the third window and install a new bulkhead to close the fuselage. The I'd restore the cockpit to stock, cut out the wingspar and use the back as a mancave. The nose can hold the fridge
Shame there aren't any project like that around in Europe

I'm stunned at the condition of the cockpit as well. No matter what I end up doing with this thing, the cockpit must live on.

[carlisle1926]

Here is the direct link to all of the pictures so far of this Lodestar http://s1122.photobucket.com/albums/l52 ... 0Lodestar/

[TAdan]

Nice job cleaning it out, it looks better already. I don't think you are crazy at all. If I (and I think many of us here) had the means (truck, trailer, etc) I'd love to do the same thing.

[Cherrybomber13]

All you need now is a couple of pounds of rivets, a few sheets of Aluminum and a 501(c)3 and you'll have her in the air in no time...



Drew

P.S. Nice Save!

[The Inspector]

Now might be a good time to mention the type of screws common to So. Cal built aircraft. Up until the advent of jets the most used screw was the REED & PRINCE. They may look like a PHILLIPS but use a pointier tip with slimmer flutes than the PHILLIPS type. Evidence of that is the gowed our screw head next to the mod plate on your airframe where some one in the past assumed they were dealing with PHILLIPS screws until they rounded out the heads, then they gave up.. I've always preferred R&P over what I call washing machine screws used today, using the correct tip they will take a lot more torque without rounding out the heads because of more bearing surface on the flutes. R&P tips and screws are still available and priced about the same as PHILLIPS screws/tips.
I used to install stereos and speakers in my cars with TRI-WINGS since it was a pretty sure bet no baggy pants was carrying a pocket full of TRI-WING tips and I was doing my part to divest aviation of the nasty things, and don't get me going on SCAREBUS' SWASTIKA SCREWS

[peter]

If you have the space, I would cut the fiselage just aft of the trailing edge of the wing and keep it or if not then cut it forward of the main spar for easier access for anyone wanting to look inside?

[shrike]

Now might be a good time to mention the type of screws common to So. Cal built aircraft. Up until the advent of jets the most used screw was the REED & PRINCE. They may look like a PHILLIPS but use a pointier tip with slimmer flutes than the PHILLIPS type. Evidence of that is the gowed our screw head next to the mod plate on your airframe where some one in the past assumed they were dealing with PHILLIPS screws until they rounded out the heads, then they gave up.. I've always preferred R&P over what I call washing machine screws used today, using the correct tip they will take a lot more torque without rounding out the heads because of more bearing surface on the flutes. R&P tips and screws are still available and priced about the same as PHILLIPS screws/tips.
I used to install stereos and speakers in my cars with TRI-WINGS since it was a pretty sure bet no baggy pants was carrying a pocket full of TRI-WING tips and I was doing my part to divest aviation of the nasty things, and don't get me going on SCAREBUS' SWASTIKA SCREWS

Glad to see I'm not the only one to use Tri-Wings as anti theft devices.

Easily recognized by the extra little pips on the corners of the cross, Reed and Prince are still very common on Asian produced goods. Because of this, even the cheapie Chinese screwdriver bit set will often have a full set of RP bits.

[carlisle1926]

Here is my idea for converting this C60 hulk into a motor home-like vehicle. Go ahead and get it out of your systems- I know the Lodestar and B25 are very different, but I want a B25 and since the nose on this one is so mangled, I think it would be neat to do something insane like this. Where the rear of the fuselage was so severely damaged, I think that would be a good place for waste gunner positions. It would be more of a fantasy bomber when done. Because it would be drivable, the rear wheel would have to be farther back for stability. This is only a rough sketch. I had been searching for a T6 Texan for a long time to make into my car idea, but I never could find an affordable fuselage to work with, so I'll just use what I have.
Jason Barnett

Last edited by carlisle1926 on Thu Feb 09, 2012 11:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.

[TAdan]

That reminds me of the Alba Bomber that American Aero Services built for the American Airpower Museum on Long Island.

http://americanaeroservices.com/cgi-bin ... &type=5234


Have you looked at making a Ventura or Hudson look alike? They had a glass nose and turret.

[carlisle1926]

That reminds me of the Alba Bomber that American Aero Services built for the American Airpower Museum on Long Island.

http://americanaeroservices.com/cgi-bin ... &type=5234


Have you looked at making a Ventura or Hudson look alike? They had a glass nose and turret.

I like the nose that they made on the Alba Bomber! I did consider a Ventura/Hudson look alike, but if I'm going to do something insane, over the top, and very time consuming, it should probably look like my favorite bomber the B25. I love the nose on B25s.

[rwdfresno]

If it was mine and I had the talent and time I would utilize the sleek Lockheed shape and make me a highly polished super airstream trailer complete with cockpit to sit in and make airplane noises. I'm nearly positive you could find yourself a replacment nose fairly easily, in fact Aero Trader likely has some I remember Carl having a few derelict Loadstars that had the spars cut.

[carlisle1926]

I could be wrong, but I think that Lodestar stuff just went to Canada for a static restoration.

[tinbender2]

I hate to be the naysayer here, but I speak from some experience.

I and a friend decided to do a similar project 20 years ago. Luckily, we didn’t spend too much money before we abandoned the project.


Assuming you want to put this on the road, here are a few problems you should have resolved BEFORE you spend another dime...


1. Insurance

Slim few insurance agencies will even consider insuring a vehicle you built yourself. Some will insure kit cars, but only those commercially sold kits. If you can’t get insurance, you can’t get it registered, and game over. But, assuming you actually did get it insured for highway travel, next is.....


2. Registration

You’re gonna love this process. A VERY few localities have Dept of Motor Vehicles that will allow you to register a home built vehicle. Most will not. I spent two years trying to get a formerly commercial bus, which I converted, registered as a motorhome. There was no clear process in the DMV bible for allowing it, and none of the DMV dingbats would risk doing anything that wasn’t written in stone in their bible. Several clerks had me doing a variety of tasks, but every time I completed them, some other supervisor would say that wasn’t sufficient. I wrote letters, talked with the head of the DMV, etc. I was only trying to change the purpose of a factory-built vehicle, not register one built by myself.

They may require proof that your vehicle complies with the Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards. Good luck with that.

If you go forth, I’d suggest you get a thrashed motorhome, redo the mechanicals, get it registered, insured and on the road for a year or so, then substitute the airframe for the factory motorhome body. And not tell the DMV or your insurer a darn thing. This is assuming your insurer does not have a clause about modified or reconstructed vehicles.



4. The modification.

I see several potential problems.

The nose wheel. Your drawing shows a very top heavy design, coupled with a tricycle gear. Even turning corners at low speeds, your risk of a roll over is very high. You’ll need brakes on that nosewheel too. How many aircraft have nosewheel brakes? I’d consider a stock four wheel design.

Visibility. Driving with the stock windscreen set up really reduces your ability to see ground objects, and your likelihood of hitting other vehicles and fixed objects is high.

Width. Make sure your max width is less than 8.5 feet, other wise you’ll need oversize vehicle permits to put it on the road. Perhaps consider removing the wing stubs completely. Some states have added more restrictions on RV dimensions and weights, requiring additional driver certifications.

Also consider that most motorhome chassis are barely able to handle the weight of the vehicle with two people and full fluids. Look at wrecked motorhomes in junkyards to see how cheaply they are built, just to shave weight. How much is your airframe going to weigh after you’ve added all the required items and a few amenities? I’m guessing at least twice as much as a similar size motorhome shell.

How is this vehicle going to handle on the interstate with high crosswinds? Or when an 18-wheeler blows by you? You could spend years of work and tens of thousands of dollars, only to get out on the road and find your dream vehicle handles so poorly you don’t want drive it.



If you have excess time and money, great. Most of us do not. Consider all the other noble deeds you could accomplish with that same time and money. You've only got a limited number of useful days on this planet, spend them wisely. I've met a fair number of homebuilt aircraft builders, who invested tens of thousands and years of work, but eventually gave up and had nothing but a huge failure for their efforts. I've worked with the Wounded Warrior Program, and can say it is by far, the most rewarding work I've ever done.


5. The cops and TSA.

If you put dummy guns on this, you’re probably gonna get pulled over by every cop that sees you. And they will likely initiate a felony stop, with guns drawn, and all their buddies responding to a radio report of a heavily armed assault vehicle.

I’ve spent three years in law enforcement, and have watched the overall professionalism of the field drop year after year. With the advent of cellphone cameras, we are just beginning to see exactly how big the problem of untrained/rogue cops really is. Do you feel comfortable with a rookie cop pointing a loaded gun at your head, and both of you knowing his fellow officers will help cover up an illegal search/seizure/shooting?

If your vehicle meets a TSA vehicle checkpoint on our nation’s highways, expect to be treated like a terrorist, and at best, just be detained for a couple hours while they ransack your vehicle. I’ve dealt with vehicle searches by the Thugs Standing Around when driving through SIDAs. They were basically goon squads, with incredible powers, little training, and no adult supervision. Their conduct was ten levels below the TSA agents you meet inside an airport terminal. Oh, and once they’re done trashing your vehicle, they leave you to clean up the mess and repair the damage.


Sorry to rain on your dream, but pushing for this to become a reality may well turn into a nightmare.

[carlisle1926]

I hate to be the naysayer here, but I speak from some experience.

I and a friend decided to do a similar project 20 years ago. Luckily, we didn’t spend too much money before we abandoned the project.


Assuming you want to put this on the road, here are a few problems you should have resolved BEFORE you spend another dime...


1. Insurance

Slim few insurance agencies will even consider insuring a vehicle you built yourself. Some will insure kit cars, but only those commercially sold kits. If you can’t get insurance, you can’t get it registered, and game over. But, assuming you actually did get it insured for highway travel, next is.....


2. Registration

You’re gonna love this process. A VERY few localities have Dept of Motor Vehicles that will allow you to register a home built vehicle. Most will not. I spent two years trying to get a formerly commercial bus, which I converted, registered as a motorhome. There was no clear process in the DMV bible for allowing it, and none of the DMV dingbats would risk doing anything that wasn’t written in stone in their bible. Several clerks had me doing a variety of tasks, but every time I completed them, some other supervisor would say that wasn’t sufficient. I wrote letters, talked with the head of the DMV, etc. I was only trying to change the purpose of a factory-built vehicle, not register one built by myself.

They may require proof that your vehicle complies with the Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards. Good luck with that.

If you go forth, I’d suggest you get a thrashed motorhome, redo the mechanicals, get it registered, insured and on the road for a year or so, then substitute the airframe for the factory motorhome body. And not tell the DMV or your insurer a darn thing. This is assuming your insurer does not have a clause about modified or reconstructed vehicles.



4. The modification.

I see several potential problems.

The nose wheel. Your drawing shows a very top heavy design, coupled with a tricycle gear. Even turning corners at low speeds, your risk of a roll over is very high. You’ll need brakes on that nosewheel too. How many aircraft have nosewheel brakes? I’d consider a stock four wheel design.

Visibility. Driving with the stock windscreen set up really reduces your ability to see ground objects, and your likelihood of hitting other vehicles and fixed objects is high.

Width. Make sure your max width is less than 8.5 feet, other wise you’ll need oversize vehicle permits to put it on the road. Perhaps consider removing the wing stubs completely. Some states have added more restrictions on RV dimensions and weights, requiring additional driver certifications.

Also consider that most motorhome chassis are barely able to handle the weight of the vehicle with two people and full fluids. Look at wrecked motorhomes in junkyards to see how cheaply they are built, just to shave weight. How much is your airframe going to weigh after you’ve added all the required items and a few amenities? I’m guessing at least twice as much as a similar size motorhome shell.

How is this vehicle going to handle on the interstate with high crosswinds? Or when an 18-wheeler blows by you? You could spend years of work and tens of thousands of dollars, only to get out on the road and find your dream vehicle handles so poorly you don’t want drive it.



If you have excess time and money, great. Most of us do not. Consider all the other noble deeds you could accomplish with that same time and money. You've only got a limited number of useful days on this planet, spend them wisely. I've met a fair number of homebuilt aircraft builders, who invested tens of thousands and years of work, but eventually gave up and had nothing but a huge failure for their efforts. I've worked with the Wounded Warrior Program, and can say it is by far, the most rewarding work I've ever done.


5. The cops and TSA.

If you put dummy guns on this, you’re probably gonna get pulled over by every cop that sees you. And they will likely initiate a felony stop, with guns drawn, and all their buddies responding to a radio report of a heavily armed assault vehicle.

I’ve spent three years in law enforcement, and have watched the overall professionalism of the field drop year after year. With the advent of cellphone cameras, we are just beginning to see exactly how big the problem of untrained/rogue cops really is. Do you feel comfortable with a rookie cop pointing a loaded gun at your head, and both of you knowing his fellow officers will help cover up an illegal search/seizure/shooting?

If your vehicle meets a TSA vehicle checkpoint on our nation’s highways, expect to be treated like a terrorist, and at best, just be detained for a couple hours while they ransack your vehicle. I’ve dealt with vehicle searches by the Thugs Standing Around when driving through SIDAs. They were basically goon squads, with incredible powers, little training, and no adult supervision. Their conduct was ten levels below the TSA agents you meet inside an airport terminal. Oh, and once they’re done trashing your vehicle, they leave you to clean up the mess and repair the damage.


Sorry to rain on your dream, but pushing for this to become a reality may well turn into a nightmare.

I'm a natural born Texan. I don't believe in the words "It can't be done."

I've already nixed the idea of using a tricycle gear. It would be under 8.5ft and I'm an experienced auto builder. It weighs under 3,000lbs right now. I plan to have NO normal heavy motor home stuff inside-shower,toilet, gray water tank etc. It would be a large hollow panel truck. I rarely leave the state, so I'm not terribly worried about the police or DPS troopers doing searches. A friend of mine drives a Jeep daily with a replica M2 Browning on a mount. I don't think he has ever had trouble because any rational cop can see that he isn't a terrorist. I suspect most police would be wise enough to realize that this thing isn't really a fully operational bomber going down the road. And if I get one that does think it is, then I will have one more story to tell about having guns pointed at me. But, I do value your points.

Last edited by carlisle1926 on Mon Jan 30, 2012 3:50 pm, edited 2 times in total.

[CAPFlyer]

"Tinbender",

I'm not sure where you live so I can't speak for there, but here in Texas, getting a home-built vehicle apparently isn't as hard as it is in other places as there are more than a few of them on the road, not to mention the number of hot rods and rat rods that are not only on the road, but built in Texas. We also have a very popular "Art Car" movement which uses at most a commercial chassis. All of these vehicles are fully road worthy and registered. I believe the state even has an actual "Art Car" license plate now. While Jason's idea may be too big to classify as an "Art Car" (I don't have the regulations handy to tell you for sure), I suspect that in Texas it's substantially easier to get a vehicle like his registered.

As for the insurance issue, what kind of insurance were you trying to get? Most companies will issue liability insurance on just about anything, it's the "full coverage" that gets you into problems. As liability insurance just provides coverage for any damage you do to others, the risk of you crashing your "Art Car" is just as high as crashing your brand new sedan since a lot of it has to do with the person behind the wheel, including maintenance since the person behind the wheel has to make sure the vehicle has been properly maintained and is in good working condition before going down the road.