"Diamond Lil" Nose Art returning to the CAF's B-24.

Cherrybomber13 · **Posted:** Tue Nov 22, 2011 10:38 pm

Ztex - Maybe Scott could get Dupont, PPG or Sherwin Willams as the next major sponsor...

Ztex · **Posted:** Tue Nov 22, 2011 11:16 pm

As to the top gun position, I think they will have to reroute some control cables to do this job..not terribly easy.

You can see the top gun ring location in this pic of the B-24A.

This is the only drawing that I have seen of the gunners position....

Pogo · **Posted:** Tue Nov 22, 2011 11:23 pm

Speedy wrote:

I just wonder how much work it would be to take the plug out of the nose of 927?

My understanding is that the nose was replaced from behind the cockpit forward ...... and that's why it's probably never going to be returned to original configuration. If I had just one wish for a warbird, getting 927/Lil's short nose and greenhouse back would be very high on the list.

CAPFlyer · **Posted:** Wed Nov 23, 2011 7:04 pm

One of the major problems with the B-24 was its weight and balance. The B-24A was even worse and the nose extension was primarily to help resolve this. It didn't help much, but it was something. No one I ever talked to with the squadron, including Gary, had any desire to ever return the nose to its original length because they were concerned that the loss of what CG envelope they do have wouldn't be worth the cost. As it is, the aircraft will already have to be put into a jig to be able to put the bomb bay doors back on, imagine the jig required to hold the airplane true while you removed the entire nose.

As for the control cables - the original runs are still in place, so the re-route shouldn't be too bad, but it was low on the list.

Speedy · **Posted:** Wed Nov 23, 2011 7:55 pm

CAPFlyer wrote:

One of the major problems with the B-24 was its weight and balance. The B-24A was even worse and the nose extension was primarily to help resolve this. It didn't help much, but it was something. No one I ever talked to with the squadron, including Gary, had any desire to ever return the nose to its original length because they were concerned that the loss of what CG envelope they do have wouldn't be worth the cost. As it is, the aircraft will already have to be put into a jig to be able to put the bomb bay doors back on, imagine the jig required to hold the airplane true while you removed the entire nose.

.

Interesting...but certainly makes a lot of sense.

Maybe a compromise by at least doing the 'black'?

Steve Nelson · **Posted:** Wed Nov 23, 2011 8:35 pm

IIRC, Gary said that the entire forward section from the cockpit forward what replaced with the nose of an RY-3 transport, so there really isn't a "plug" per se that can be removed. I'd settle for seeing her with a stock greenhouse canopy, but I assume that would require a good bit of reconfiguration of the cockpit, since there's a fair bit of equipment on the ceiling.

I just hope I can see her one of these days..I haven't actually seen AM927 since '05, before Gary's "Extreme Makeover: Liberator Edition."

SN

tulsaboy · **Posted:** Wed Nov 23, 2011 11:11 pm

I feel the need to speak up, since I asked the question on the other B-24A thread weeks ago.

Django- Your work on the airplane was great, and was a huge part of "remaking" this airplane. I, for one, believe that a different identity was needed for a little while, as the airplane went through a transition from the old transport look back to a more appropriate look given the aircraft's history. It helped deliniate a break between the airplane as it was, and the airplane as (I believe) it will be going forward. Thank you for your work.

As for the nose art change, I think that it's a neat idea to periodically change things up. The Collings Foundation has done some amazing work in this area, and I always chuckle when I hear someone say, "Well, I rode on the Dragon one, but I haven't ridden on this Witchcraft one. Guess I'll have to take a ride on it too." That being said, the B-24A is such a rare aircraft, it has the opportunity to represent a very brief but significant moment in our nation's history- the calm before the storm that became WWII. Gary did much to point the airplane in the right direction-starting a transformation back to its factory fresh appearance as a B-24A and not a mangled B-24D impression. Putting the neutrality scheme on the airplane with the large flags is just another small step towards restoring the airplane's overall appearance and scheme. To me it seems to be a nice compromise- those who were upset about losing Diamond Lil get some satisfaction, those who wanted a more pure B-24A look can at least stand on one side of the airplane and feel satisfied. The only loser here is Django and those who really liked the Ol 927 artwork. I, for one, believe that Django's contribution to the airplane's overhaul, his time spent with Gary and his promotion of that airplane are gifts that cannot be repaid by the CAF, and will last long past the airplane's paint scheme. Well done Django. Well done Gary. And keep up the good work CAF. It's a tough job, but I for one am glad you're doing it.

kevin

SaxMan · **Posted:** Wed Nov 23, 2011 11:24 pm

It's interesting, because while the Collings Foundation has had their B-24 in three different schemes, their B-17 has always been "Nine-O-Nine". I'm hard pressed to think of any of the B-17 flyers that have had an identity change in the last 15 years...maybe the "Pink Lady" in France and when N17W became "Boeing Bee", but both of them have been in those colors for at least a decade?

I think the renaming is the best of both worlds. It connects the plane to those who have seen her before, but still retains the B-24A pedigree that Gary wanted the plane to have.

Randy Haskin · **Posted:** Thu Nov 24, 2011 12:09 pm

I personally love that Collings frequently repaints and renames the B-24. I'd like to see it on many different warbirds...lots of different groups and theaters to pay tribute to.

Invader26 · **Joined:** Wed Aug 11, 2010 7:56 am **Posts:** 843

hopefully they do the flag on the top of the fuselage as well....

RickH · **Posted:** Fri Nov 25, 2011 12:53 am

We've also changed the F-4. It's original paint when we started flying it was "463" the F-4D that resides at the Air Force Academy. It was the aircraft that Steve Ritchie and Chuck DeBellvue were flying when they got their 5th kill. It made sense at the time because Steve was flying the aircraft when we first got it. Currently,the aircraft retains the SEA camo per the tech order, the major markings were changed to represent "680", the aircraft Robin Olds was flying the day of Operation Bolo.

Django · **Posted:** Thu Dec 15, 2011 1:50 pm

I just uploaded some of the original Ol 927 pencil sketches onto my Facebook page if anyone is interested in seeing them.

the330thbg · **Joined:** Wed Nov 14, 2007 3:06 pm **Posts:** 2713

Paul Krumrei · **Joined:** Sun Apr 03, 2005 11:06 pm **Posts:** 1757

CAPFlyer wrote:

Invader26 wrote:

genuine insecurity on behalf of the current CAF Board methinks....

Considering the CAF Board had nothing to do with it, why don't you keep your thinly veiled attacks to yourself?

Gotta watch what you say around these CAF'rs they get a stick in their tushy about every little tiny thing.

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"Diamond Lil" Nose Art returning to the CAF's B-24.

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