Setter in the east - Singapore - Qatar and Manilla

[Jollygreenslugg]

My dad witnessed three B-17's buried in Arizona in 1949.

Yeah, right!

Lemme guess: either famous combat veterans that the base commander wanted to hide from the scrapper, so he had them prepped, engines inhibited and everything sealed before having them carefully buried?

Maybe three zero-timed examples which were 'too good to scrap' so they were hidden for future salvation?

Because in 1949, labour was so hard to find that it made more sense to dig a few hundred yards of pits to bury them than it did to get some guys with gas-axes and a truck to chop them up and drag the remains away to be smelted?

As I said, yeah right!

Cheers,
Matt

[the330thbg]

my, my.., such skepticism.., just because you burned out 43 back hoes and dulled 87 shovels looking for buried Spitfires.., you think everyone else’s are just hoaxes?

[Bcook]

That's what my father told me.
These B-17s were not part of a scrap yard.
Left at some deserted location and that is why they were just buried.
My father helped!
This is not BS why even imply such?

[the330thbg]

Left at some deserted location and that is why they were just buried..., This is not BS why even imply such?

No offense, mate.., but these are the rumors that rumors are made of and so many of them (99%) of them turn out to be just word of mouth of a friend who's uncle saw these planes (brand new) being buried at a secret location and does not remember where but they were there.., right out of the crate engines, zero time on the airframe, cheaper to bury them than sell off the metal (dig a 100' hole 40' deep..,how?)etc...

You provide them a location and they find the airplanes there.., then they believe you.

[Sutts]

That's what my father told me.
These B-17s were not part of a scrap yard.
Left at some deserted location and that is why they were just buried.
My father helped!
This is not BS why even imply such?

Well, let's find out where they are then! Any idea which base your father was talking about?
Perhaps google earth might show ground disturbance if we can get a rough location.

I doubt they would actually dig a hole that large. From the accounts I've read they usually used a natural feature like a gully or other dip in the ground and then backfilled over them. Unfortunately I believe this was often preceded by flattening with bulldozers and burning.

Cheers

[mustangdriver]

Well, I can say that they DID bury an ME-262 and a few other aircraft under what is now one of the main runways of Pittsburgh Airport. The ANG fully supports that they did put them there.

[cooper9411]

Everything is a rumor until proof is provided in photos or in person. But in the mean time it makes for good conversation.

[Pat Carry]

Don't forget about the Ar 234 and other German planes buried at Patuxent NAS in Maryland. I'm sure I recall reading here on the WIX that even today some remnants of these planes protrude from the dump on the base along the river.

[Pat Carry]

Hey how come Setter no longer posts anything here?

[cooper9411]

I seem to vaguely recall hearing about the the aircraft that were buried not only there but at other locations as well. Most of the time they were bulldozed over or torched.

[Jollygreenslugg]

G'day Chris,

Indeed, there are a number of known and documented sites where airframes or parts thereof were buried. Freeman Field is a good example. I've read the account of Watson's Whizzers, and how Holt's Me-262 ended up at Pittsburgh, with its undercarriage torn out. I understand that it ended up abandoned and on the junk pile before being buried as a part of the aircraft clean-up by the authorities. The Airabonita also comes to mind.

I'd put those in a different category from the vague stories which are told from time to time about burials out in the middle of nowhere. Look at the practicality of burying things oput in the desert. Why, especially when it'd be easier to just let them rot. Hardly a real-estate issue!

Well, I can say that they DID bury an ME-262 and a few other aircraft under what is now one of the main runways of Pittsburgh Airport. The ANG fully supports that they did put them there.

Bcook, it would have taken far more work and effort to bury aircraft in a 'deserted location' than it would to have chopped them up. Was your father still in the service in 1949, or did he *cough* 'help' as a civillian? Call me a cynic, but I could take some convincing!

The330thbg, you've discovered my secret shame, all those blisters and broken shovels!

They do make good drinking stories. Lost treasure, and all that.

Cheers,
Matt

[jmkendall]

Buried Aircraft? Jeesh.....thats like those rumors of buried F-111s in Australia!

Anyone that grew up around the major US bases in the 40s to 60s know that there are tons, literally, of equipment buried on these bases. Mare Island Naval Shipyard was famous for the number of Cannon found by backhoes doing routine road maintenance.

As for the "three b-17"; well Aerovin would be the one to ask, but it is a well known and documented fact that the late Paul Mantz pulled three combat vet B-17s for a proposed series of gas stations. I believe the whole deal stopped due to his untimely death.

However; there are photos of at least one of these aircraft on an ice dock in OK City circa 1949. It has always been rumored that these three were buried rather than scrapped. These aircraft had already had their wings dismounted and so it would not be a big deal...especially with the ownership issues....ala...the City wanting to dispose of an "eyesore" but not owning the property.....if you bury it there is always the chance that if the owner comes to get it you have less liability than if you scrapped it and took the profits.

[cooper9411]

Anything is possible!

[aerovin]

Buried Aircraft? Jeesh.....thats like those rumors of buried F-111s in Australia!

As for the "three b-17"; well Aerovin would be the one to ask, but it is a well known and documented fact that the late Paul Mantz pulled three combat vet B-17s for a proposed series of gas stations. I believe the whole deal stopped due to his untimely death.

However; there are photos of at least one of these aircraft on an ice dock in OK City circa 1949. It has always been rumored that these three were buried rather than scrapped. These aircraft had already had their wings dismounted and so it would not be a big deal...especially with the ownership issues....ala...the City wanting to dispose of an "eyesore" but not owning the property.....if you bury it there is always the chance that if the owner comes to get it you have less liability than if you scrapped it and took the profits.

I'll chime in here that three B-17s did come from the Stillwater airplanes that Mantz bought in February 1946, and the three were transported to Oklahoma City for use at gas stations, and that at least one was rumored (again, rumored) to have been used as fill during a road construction project a few years later. You would think dirt would be better fill for a road project, but that was the rumor.

There is a photo of one of the three mounted at a gas station (with wings) on page 36 of Final Cut (4th Edition), by the way.

By the time Mantz was killed in 1965, his large batch of surplus warplanes had been long scrapped...save his two Mustangs, B-25H, and a few other lucky ones including, yes, a B-17 that eventually went to Bolivia.

Last edited by aerovin on Wed Dec 14, 2011 4:06 pm, edited 2 times in total.

[PeterA]

Hey how come Setter no longer posts anything here?

My last post on this matter, concerning the Syrian Spitires, seems to have been deleted by the moderators.

The Phillipine P-38's were just one of a number of...how shall I put this.... exposed 'Flights of fantasy'.

PeterA