Warbird Information Exchange

My dad a B-17 member never liked warbirds flying.
Not for the reason of bad memories.
1. But because he did not want to see them crash.
2. He believed that warbirds should be left correct markings and colors.(lacking there of today)
His ideals rubbed off on me.
I dont 100% agree flying them.
You don't take the Mona-Lisa make prints out of it and make the background green do you?
Don't do it with warbirds!

And of course there are veterans who don't talk about their experiences in the war, but readily jump at the chance to see their old steeds.

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A&P/I.A., A.A.S./Aviation Maintenance technology
Warbird salvage/recovery
One day I'll get that P-40!

My dad flew C46's in China in 44 and 45. After the war ended he did not fly again until 1973 when he checked out in a Cessna 150 for the sole purpose of getting me involved in flying. Once I soloed he never flew again. He loved to talk about his training flying the PT's, BT's and AT's. He talked about his leave time, and time off duty but never once about any of his actual flying in China.

His best friend flew P 47's in Europe and he would not talk about any of it. The only time he talked about it was the fact that on his last combat flight in April 45 how nervous he and how glad he was that he had no contacts on the flight. He said he got out of the plane after landing and never flew again nor did he have any interest.

I took them to an airshow here once and was excited because they had a C 46 and a P 47 there. My dad seemed to enjoy the C 46 and the crew let dad get in the cockpit where he immediately started rattling off the check list and where everything was. He sat in the pilots seat and answered questions of the crew and I learned more about his time flying the Hump that day than I had before or after. One of the crew remarked how lucky he was to have flown them in the war. My dad said " son I was flying an unarmed, slow, giant fuel tank over land where we could not emergency land knowing one Japanese bullet and we were dead. The only time I felt lucky was after I landed the thing. "

His friend Shorty on the other hand had no interest in the P 47. He did walk over and talked to the pilot for a minute and when he came back his only comment was " he didn't serve, darn thing is just a toy to him " and that was that.

Individual experiences in the war, and each man reacted in his own unique way to it. And just as unique is each mans reaction to current warbirds I am sure.

I will say flying my L 4 I have never gotten anything but positive reactions from veterans that served in WW 2. It could be the plane was viewed more as a support to them than anything else. Most said it was more of a jeep to them than a combat plane. I have not met a pilot that flew them in combat. I am sure there view would be different.

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Flying Piper L4-J 45-55209

Were it not for having the opportunities to fly them though we wouldn't have nearly as many of them today as we do, even with the inevitable crashes and accidents. They were and are rescued, rebuilt, and resurrected because, in part, people wanted to have them to fly - I want to have mine to fly. The Grumman F3F is today no longer extinct because someone wanted to have one to fly, for example. (Lets please stay on point and not get into the whole restoration/replica/re-creation debate). Mustangs get built virtually from scratch today because, among other reasons, someone wants to fly one - or be able to watch it fly. Besides being historical touchstones or tangible links to our past these things are also airplanes, and as such were meant to be flown. That too is a perspective.

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Defending Stearmans on WIX since Jeff started badmouthing them back in 2005.

Owning the L-5, I get to speak to a lot of Army Air Force veterans. They are just as interested in what I did in the US Army as I am in what they did in the USAAF. We enjoy swapping stories. When they ask me about flying the L-5, I tell them I'm still learning and sometimes wish I was back in the Paratroops. They like that.

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REMEMBER THE SERGEANT PILOTS!

In the early 70's my father took the family on a trip to Harlingen to meet up with an old war comrade.

We drove out to the CAF to nose around. No one was there and were able to freely walk around, in and out of all the aircraft parked outside.

Fifi was there. Newly acquired and not looking her best. My dad was an A/C with over 25 missions off of Guam back in 1945.

My older brother and I were jumping up and down as my father slowly lifted us up through the forward bombay so we could climb through the open hatch into the cockpit.

I looked back, thinking he was going to join us.., his hands were shaking and his eyes were glossing over and he began to back away. He was visibly trembling.

Needless to say he did not join us.., I was as disappointed then as I am now that I never got to see him in his seat with his hands on the control column.., but I know he had his demons from that war.

He never wanted to speak of the war or his adventures. As I continue to document the history of the 330th on my website, over the years, I am finding that as these men get much older they really feel a need to talk about it. My father passed away when he was 70., so he was not quite in the arena yet.., but these men in their 80's and 90's recount stories so crisp from 70 years ago and they can not even remember what they had for breakfast the day before.

They are boiling over with knowledge and really feel the need to get it out.

As this relates to warbirds.., keep em flying. When the last 'version' of one is what is remaining., then I am more leary.., but for now.., keep em going!

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S.

As a Panama, Desert Storm, Kosovo Veteran, I can understand. When I was working as an EOD in my first years, I still have a hard time hearing loud bangs, especially when I am not aware they are about to go off, ( kids playing with firecrackers and me not seeing them )

Now, I never had it even close to what those men went through and I am dealing with my own PTSD, but if I were crammed in a B-17 tail gunner position watching those fighters coming at me and lighting me and my fellow aircraft up every single mission, I would probably never ever set foot near one ever again and probably be hiding in the bottom of a bottle of JD.

Some men want to see them restored, some could give to craps, I can understand both sides of the coin. I would be like if they preserved a Scud Warhead from Desert Storm and were like oh look at that, ooo and awwww, I would be like, yeah, you go up to that Sum'bitch after it landed and try to defuse it before it blows you and everything around you sky high.

God Bless those who still deal with the PTSD, it is hard. My uncle was a tunnel rat in the Army Rangers in Vietnam, with three purple hearts, he NEVER EVER talks about his service. No medals hanging in his office, no Vet Plates on his car, nothing, he would rather take a bullet to the head then ever mention it. He asked me one time, How the F' can you have Gulf War plates on your truck? Then walked away.

Poor guys.

Peace all,

Unfortunately many people think the aircraft are just toys, a way to show off. Then there are many who truely understand and appreciated who built, flew,maintained, and gave the ultimate sacrifice. Lots of people want these planes not for the historical significance but rather for their own personal financial gain.

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A&P/I.A., A.A.S./Aviation Maintenance technology
Warbird salvage/recovery
One day I'll get that P-40!

Just got to my office this morning, checking into WIX, interesting posts. An educated opinion (or not so much) but I would believe there are a few warbird owners out there today who have no interest in the history of their airplane and really do only see it as a big toy or investment. I see a few air racers and a few P-51's fitting into this area IMHO. Taking a guess but I would assume back in the 50's, 60's, and 70's that many warbird owners had very little interest in the history of their airplanes. Hence the civilian paint schemes. But just wanted to have something cheap (at the time) and with high performance. Whether they really had the folks who flew them in harms way on their minds would be something of a debate. Nothing to take away as negative here, just another observation. I have stated in past posts that I for one, am a huge fan of complete authenticity in warbirds. From paint schemes to overall authentic restorations, but I do understand why there is the possibility that certain owners are only interested in today and not 70 year old history. As in my original post, I would believe that people who saw terrible combat 70 years ago, or in any war, would also only be interested in today and not 70 year old history and would go out of their way to not be reminded about that history in anyway possible. I remember my dad and I going to Oshkosh when I was a kid and all I wanted to do was make a bee line for the warbird area as soon as possible. Dad was never that eager to go down there to the end of the field. he was far more interested in the vintage airplanes and homebuilts. never understood that until I got older. he didn't mind warbirds, but by far didn't have the enthusiasm that I did. he seemed the have that "been there, done that" mentality towards warbirds.

wow.., could not have said it better.., which is why i did not attempt it.

Nice summation!

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S.

Not too wordy at all. Pretty much nailed it.

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Flying Piper L4-J 45-55209

What some here have failed to recognize is that if a warbird is at an airshow, you’re likely ONLY going to encounter vets who are interested in the planes, otherwise why else would they bother showing up? Most vets who don’t want to be reminded of such things are likely not going to go to the show in the first place. It’s easy to think that most vets get all warm inside when they see the tools of their war at museums or shows and such. But it’s not really correct. I do historical displays for the WW2 era all the time and I’ve seen vets completely break down and ask their family to get them out of there. Nobody blames us for that, and I’m surprised that actually hasn’t happened, like a middle-aged man coming up to us yelling, “You made my Dad break down and lose it from all this war stuff!” Sure as I write this, it’ll likely happen this coming year.
I have a WW2 Jeep and drive it at shows, parades and around my neighborhood on decent weekend days. I’ve had a couple of WW2 vets come up, really steamed that I’m making them remember. I was told by once that I should feel ashamed of myself for “rubbing my nose in my past when I wasn’t ready for it” by one vet who saw me at a gas station filling up. When we’ve done shows at public venues (our group used to do a huge display at a large mall near Seattle) where a vet wouldn’t know ahead of time, I’ve always worried we’d bring on a response the vet wasn’t prepared for.
I completely get where they’re coming from. I had a very nasty turn in a Chinook once on active duty and won’t get into the specifics here. Our WW2 group was doing an event at a USAF base once and one of the guys wanted to check out a CH-47 nearby. I reluctantly went with him and got into the bird and sat down for a moment. I thought I was going to throw up right there and started shaking a little. I couldn’t get out fast enough to suit me. One of the crew got a concerned look on his face and started to walk toward me and another crewmember grabbed him by the arm and whispered something to him, I think probably he recognized the reaction I was having. I see them flying over my office all the time and it sends cold chills down my spine just to hear them go overhead. The day they quit flying 47s, I won’t mourn their passing like I would other military aircraft types. Yes, I understand why a WW2 vet wouldn’t want to see a plane from his past.

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Life member, 91st BG Memorial Association
Owner, 1944 Willys MB #366014
Former REMF (US Army, O3)

I flew the B-17's " Sentimental Journey" for 18 years and "Liberty Belle" for 6 years. My first trip in "Sentimental Journey" was to Yuma MCAS for an airshow. There was an older lady I struck up a conversation with, whose brother had died in a B-17 over Europe. I spent and hour with her and gave her a tour of the aircraft. When we finished, she had tears in hers eyes and thanked me. She said after 45 years years she finally had "closure" with her brothers death. I have seen hundreds of veterans go through or fly in the B-17, all thanked us for keeping the aircraft flying For many it was a chance to show heir families what they flew during the war. I have seen the reactions of veterans, some crying, some with a the worlds biggest grin, others with a sad, quiet look on their face. It makes all the time and effort that is put into these airplanes worth every minute.

I completely understand the negative reaction of some vets to warbirds. However, keeping these relics flying keeps the memory alive of those who weren't so lucky...the 20 year olds who are still trapped in the wreckage of their aircraft in a field or under the sea. That is what is important in my eyes - telling the stories of these guys who never came home.

Agreed 100%

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A&P/I.A., A.A.S./Aviation Maintenance technology
Warbird salvage/recovery
One day I'll get that P-40!