Re: FAH 609 Buno 124715 deteriorating!
Tue Oct 18, 2011 10:42 pm
i think this really peaks the interest of a lot of people. Mainly because were talking corsair here so there's a good following behind that plane. I do hope it gets and stays indoors. If not, we will have to fly it out of there and bring it home for a oil change, then we'll bring it back....we promise 
Re: FAH 609 Buno 124715 deteriorating!
Tue Oct 18, 2011 11:27 pm
Friends of Buno 124715/ FAH 609 Folks:
Good day!
Tks & a good point for those of us who understand F4U Corsair language! For the current Museum Admin folks (FMAH) who seem to know very little about protecting & preserving a valuable/historical aircraft...I guess they will never see the point of keeping it under shelter, for all others..... they simply do not understand!!
However, we are that small voice that's speaking for the silent FAH 609 for now... while other diplomatic talks take place. We challenge the present museum admin folks (FMAH) to show actual photos of how the aircraft actually looks today under the sun & elements for the last 2 years so the warbird world audience could see exactly what is taking place!!! Photo via Ennio Devoto.
p.s Below the The Mk 20 Optical Gunsight missing for some time along with a few cabin instruments. A clock among one of them. Photo c. 2006.
2 B cont!
Good day!
Tks & a good point for those of us who understand F4U Corsair language! For the current Museum Admin folks (FMAH) who seem to know very little about protecting & preserving a valuable/historical aircraft...I guess they will never see the point of keeping it under shelter, for all others..... they simply do not understand!!
However, we are that small voice that's speaking for the silent FAH 609 for now... while other diplomatic talks take place. We challenge the present museum admin folks (FMAH) to show actual photos of how the aircraft actually looks today under the sun & elements for the last 2 years so the warbird world audience could see exactly what is taking place!!! Photo via Ennio Devoto.
p.s Below the The Mk 20 Optical Gunsight missing for some time along with a few cabin instruments. A clock among one of them. Photo c. 2006.
2 B cont!
Re: FAH 609 Buno 124715 deteriorating!
Wed Oct 19, 2011 12:01 am
Re: FAH 609 Buno 124715 deteriorating!
Wed Oct 19, 2011 3:05 am
Mr. Soto609,
With all due respect.
As a museum director that understands the delicate balance of preserving history and wondering where the money will come from to keep the lights on next month, I can understand your taking Zorro to task. FAH 609's role in the history of the Honduran Airforce, in the history of Corsairs and as a prop fighter is undeniable.
That said, I am also heading up the restoration of the former FAS 217 FG1-D Corsair. The air-frame was left outdoors for 37 years while the curators were telling people that it was being cleaned and taken care of. It plain and simple was rotting away. 3 years later and several $$$ spent we are only 1/2 way done reversing the damage. I as well as several others here on Wix count the Corsair as, an obsession, a passion, and possibly a member of our respective family.
I do not think is is un-reasonable for you to simply prove Mr. Zorro wrong. Address his concerns, publicly by posting , some current, document-able photos of the alleged areas of damage and or missing items. If he is creating a tall tale, then he will be proven as such and the case will be closed.
I'm sure you will question with "Why do we (museum) need to prove anything?"
I, as well as many other Museum Directors or Restoration Directors in the USA and in other countries are held to task for the artifacts in our care and on occasion need to document their condition or location for the public or government agencies. While it may seem like a hassle it would publicly for once and for all clear the issue up.
We in the museum industries (airplane or otherwise) are teachers, champions of the past and keepers of the great story.
Sometimes we need to educate the unwashed masses and show them that their information is wrong and put and end to the false stories. Mr. Soto609, Please put an end to this story and educate us on the ccurrent state of FAH 609. You, like myself are the proverbial "Horses Mouth" We can give the best account of our artifacts.
As far as other allegations regarding photos, that is not my job and I would leave that for Scott or one to the Mods to sort out.
Most Respectfully,
Andrew King
With all due respect.
As a museum director that understands the delicate balance of preserving history and wondering where the money will come from to keep the lights on next month, I can understand your taking Zorro to task. FAH 609's role in the history of the Honduran Airforce, in the history of Corsairs and as a prop fighter is undeniable.
That said, I am also heading up the restoration of the former FAS 217 FG1-D Corsair. The air-frame was left outdoors for 37 years while the curators were telling people that it was being cleaned and taken care of. It plain and simple was rotting away. 3 years later and several $$$ spent we are only 1/2 way done reversing the damage. I as well as several others here on Wix count the Corsair as, an obsession, a passion, and possibly a member of our respective family.
I do not think is is un-reasonable for you to simply prove Mr. Zorro wrong. Address his concerns, publicly by posting , some current, document-able photos of the alleged areas of damage and or missing items. If he is creating a tall tale, then he will be proven as such and the case will be closed.
I'm sure you will question with "Why do we (museum) need to prove anything?"
I, as well as many other Museum Directors or Restoration Directors in the USA and in other countries are held to task for the artifacts in our care and on occasion need to document their condition or location for the public or government agencies. While it may seem like a hassle it would publicly for once and for all clear the issue up.
We in the museum industries (airplane or otherwise) are teachers, champions of the past and keepers of the great story.
Sometimes we need to educate the unwashed masses and show them that their information is wrong and put and end to the false stories. Mr. Soto609, Please put an end to this story and educate us on the ccurrent state of FAH 609. You, like myself are the proverbial "Horses Mouth" We can give the best account of our artifacts.
As far as other allegations regarding photos, that is not my job and I would leave that for Scott or one to the Mods to sort out.
Most Respectfully,
Andrew King
Re: FAH 609 Buno 124715 deteriorating!
Wed Oct 19, 2011 9:10 am
Just putting my 2 cents on this as well. Mr. Drew King has my upmost respect as a restorer, director and friend. He has this incredible task of preserving the history of not only the Corsair, but aviation aspects all around. His mission that he has taken on is one of pure passion and dedication to warbirds. Not only does he do that, but also has to be the leader of our musuem. Meetings, fundraisers,airshows ect Mr. King is always there working. When he touches on a subject,( such as this Corsair,) always try to retain as much information as possible and possibly walk away with some good tips or advice on how to handle such situations. Trust me, he has had to do everything in his power to make things work. Even when there's nothing, it always seems to appear when Drew works his magic. I would take every word he wrote and try to copy myself in that type of professionalism when it comes to any type of Corsair situation.
Frank
Frank
Re: FAH 609 Buno 124715 deteriorating!
Wed Oct 19, 2011 10:43 am
mr cherrybomber13 and whistilingdeathcorsair
one thing is to be concern other is to discredit other´s job. i have been very close to the job this people is doing, not just for this plane, but to rescue and preserve our aviation history. for some time mr. planas was a friend of this museum but we do not know what truly happend to him, he changed in a very bad way, against them.
as a director, mr cherrybomber13, you know that the monetary fact is something very hard to manage. sometimes you have it, sometimes you don´t. and for this reason you have to take decisions probably against your will bet they are necessary, they can be permanent in certain cases but in others are temporarly. in this case, the decision to have the plane outside is TEMPORARLY, that means, it won´t be out forever. it is just waiting the institutio to gather the enough money to continue the edifications planed and have it back inside back again. it is out because they made and agreement with other institution to make some murals to explain the evolution of aviation in honduras, they are very nice and of couse need much care. also the only plane with space is a pt-17 stearman that need a lot of much care because is made with fabric. in some time ahead the construction will continue and of course the plane will be back in again. the museum doesn´t have the intention the have it out forever, as mr zorro is trying to make you all think, destroying and discrediting other´s job and sacrifice. all of them are volunteers and as you may know is kind of hard to find people like this. the plane has been out for just 2 month!!! he has not giving them a breath!! man, planes have been outside for much more longer time and they are perfect!! beside that if you go around different museum they have exhibitions OUT of a hangar like the one in Uruguay and Chile. probably they have they same problem. beside that, that institution has no support from the government or other institution, they use others activities to gather money, so you will understand that takes time to raise money for a proyect.
imagine that know we have inundations, no food, no water, everything due to a storm he have, so they won´t expect money from that side. the only money comes from other activities. mr. planas seems he can understand.
in this link (http://www.facebook.com/pages/Fundaci%C ... 2266692756) you will see how the museum is going, they are not working bad, they have to take decision probably against their will, but as i said, they are TEMPORARLY. all money that has enterede has been well used and nobody has complained about that. alll visitors are pleased to see what people can do witout any official support, just attending galdly every visitir that goes there. being agaisnt this people, talking bad about people that he personally knows is wrong. i think he lost them as friends.
this noble proyect needs hands directly on it, not just in a computer. would you mr cherrybomber accept criticts of someone that said was your friend and suddenly changed without no reason or explanation??? i just simply don´t get it. beside that, i think he has not even asked about that matters.
let them work a while. let them breath. nothing is easy. one day the plane will be back in again but i asure you it will be made by the effort of the museum members, not mr. planas. i can add also that he has used pictures in a madly way that has their owners mad because they support in other forms the museum, they are well aware of the problematic of the museum.
good to see your corncern misters, if there is a will to help contact them via facebook and ask how can it be done. thanks.
one thing is to be concern other is to discredit other´s job. i have been very close to the job this people is doing, not just for this plane, but to rescue and preserve our aviation history. for some time mr. planas was a friend of this museum but we do not know what truly happend to him, he changed in a very bad way, against them.
as a director, mr cherrybomber13, you know that the monetary fact is something very hard to manage. sometimes you have it, sometimes you don´t. and for this reason you have to take decisions probably against your will bet they are necessary, they can be permanent in certain cases but in others are temporarly. in this case, the decision to have the plane outside is TEMPORARLY, that means, it won´t be out forever. it is just waiting the institutio to gather the enough money to continue the edifications planed and have it back inside back again. it is out because they made and agreement with other institution to make some murals to explain the evolution of aviation in honduras, they are very nice and of couse need much care. also the only plane with space is a pt-17 stearman that need a lot of much care because is made with fabric. in some time ahead the construction will continue and of course the plane will be back in again. the museum doesn´t have the intention the have it out forever, as mr zorro is trying to make you all think, destroying and discrediting other´s job and sacrifice. all of them are volunteers and as you may know is kind of hard to find people like this. the plane has been out for just 2 month!!! he has not giving them a breath!! man, planes have been outside for much more longer time and they are perfect!! beside that if you go around different museum they have exhibitions OUT of a hangar like the one in Uruguay and Chile. probably they have they same problem. beside that, that institution has no support from the government or other institution, they use others activities to gather money, so you will understand that takes time to raise money for a proyect.
imagine that know we have inundations, no food, no water, everything due to a storm he have, so they won´t expect money from that side. the only money comes from other activities. mr. planas seems he can understand.
in this link (http://www.facebook.com/pages/Fundaci%C ... 2266692756) you will see how the museum is going, they are not working bad, they have to take decision probably against their will, but as i said, they are TEMPORARLY. all money that has enterede has been well used and nobody has complained about that. alll visitors are pleased to see what people can do witout any official support, just attending galdly every visitir that goes there. being agaisnt this people, talking bad about people that he personally knows is wrong. i think he lost them as friends.
this noble proyect needs hands directly on it, not just in a computer. would you mr cherrybomber accept criticts of someone that said was your friend and suddenly changed without no reason or explanation??? i just simply don´t get it. beside that, i think he has not even asked about that matters.
let them work a while. let them breath. nothing is easy. one day the plane will be back in again but i asure you it will be made by the effort of the museum members, not mr. planas. i can add also that he has used pictures in a madly way that has their owners mad because they support in other forms the museum, they are well aware of the problematic of the museum.
good to see your corncern misters, if there is a will to help contact them via facebook and ask how can it be done. thanks.
Re: FAH 609 Buno 124715 deteriorating!
Wed Oct 19, 2011 2:10 pm
Mr. Soto609 & Mr. Zorro,
First, thank you for the response. I think that we can all agree on at least one point. FAH 609 is a treasure of the Honduran people, much like our Enola Gay it was a weapon of war that defined a moment in history, for better or worse depending on who's side you were on. 609's long place in Honduran aviation history would give young and old Hondurans a sense of national pride for the next century to come.
Yes, Mr. Soto, many museums display their aircraft outside, usually due to lack of indoor space. The museums you reference look to have beautiful well maintained aircraft. That is a photo. I am unable say "yes I agree with you" mainly because we are looking at a photo from 30 feet away. Sadly many museums here in the USA also cant afford to maintain their collection when stored out in the elements long term. Wright Patterson in Ohio has several large aircraft on open display that need to get inside of a building. I will take what you say at face value, that FAH 609 will only be out for a short period.
I will say that with respect to both parties, I do agree with Soto609, sitting behind a screen 2000 miles north is real easy, getting down to business with sweat on your brow and tools in hand is alot harder and puts you in a different perspective. Given my challenges with FAS 217, I feel I can comment and ask for an explanation but even I can't demand that people I don't know (and don't know me) they get out in the field and get to work.
I will also say that I agree with Zorro in this respect. "If you see something say something." Considering how easy it is for vandals, collectors, and yes even possibly a museum mishandling an artifact, it is better to raise the question then for it to be to late. Being concerned about history is a good thing.
There is a big difference between discrediting a museum and asking "Hey whats the reason you did this". The tone and method may be suspect to your own interpretation. I personally can't attest to any private communication between either poster and the museum and will not get caught up in that discussion. I am a firm believer in trying to handle things respectfully and with out an international incident when all possible.
I have contacted the Air Museum Foundation of Honduras at Mr. Soto's direction and offered a few suggestions and any help we could provide from Stratford. Beyond that, if it were all possible, I would be happy to assemble a crew to go to Honduras for a work week or weekend if I could get the airfare donated (I'm NOT driving to Honduras unless someone loans me a truck) I know I could get aleast 5-7 people to go.
My only interest here is to see an artifact preserved and in the end these are my opinions.
The rest of the discussion is for men with suits and ties to discuss over ownership of copyright. I am a photographer and understand copyright laws fairly well. I would suggest keeping those allegations with Scott or the Mods and Zorro.
We should all remember that Warbirds bring out the very best and absolute worse in some people. Barring a horrible accident or fire, FAH 609, FAS 217 and all the many other Corsairs we love so much will be here long after everyone on this board is dead and gone.
Very Respectfully,
First, thank you for the response. I think that we can all agree on at least one point. FAH 609 is a treasure of the Honduran people, much like our Enola Gay it was a weapon of war that defined a moment in history, for better or worse depending on who's side you were on. 609's long place in Honduran aviation history would give young and old Hondurans a sense of national pride for the next century to come.
Yes, Mr. Soto, many museums display their aircraft outside, usually due to lack of indoor space. The museums you reference look to have beautiful well maintained aircraft. That is a photo. I am unable say "yes I agree with you" mainly because we are looking at a photo from 30 feet away. Sadly many museums here in the USA also cant afford to maintain their collection when stored out in the elements long term. Wright Patterson in Ohio has several large aircraft on open display that need to get inside of a building. I will take what you say at face value, that FAH 609 will only be out for a short period.
I will say that with respect to both parties, I do agree with Soto609, sitting behind a screen 2000 miles north is real easy, getting down to business with sweat on your brow and tools in hand is alot harder and puts you in a different perspective. Given my challenges with FAS 217, I feel I can comment and ask for an explanation but even I can't demand that people I don't know (and don't know me) they get out in the field and get to work.
I will also say that I agree with Zorro in this respect. "If you see something say something." Considering how easy it is for vandals, collectors, and yes even possibly a museum mishandling an artifact, it is better to raise the question then for it to be to late. Being concerned about history is a good thing.
There is a big difference between discrediting a museum and asking "Hey whats the reason you did this". The tone and method may be suspect to your own interpretation. I personally can't attest to any private communication between either poster and the museum and will not get caught up in that discussion. I am a firm believer in trying to handle things respectfully and with out an international incident when all possible.
I have contacted the Air Museum Foundation of Honduras at Mr. Soto's direction and offered a few suggestions and any help we could provide from Stratford. Beyond that, if it were all possible, I would be happy to assemble a crew to go to Honduras for a work week or weekend if I could get the airfare donated (I'm NOT driving to Honduras unless someone loans me a truck) I know I could get aleast 5-7 people to go.
My only interest here is to see an artifact preserved and in the end these are my opinions.
The rest of the discussion is for men with suits and ties to discuss over ownership of copyright. I am a photographer and understand copyright laws fairly well. I would suggest keeping those allegations with Scott or the Mods and Zorro.
We should all remember that Warbirds bring out the very best and absolute worse in some people. Barring a horrible accident or fire, FAH 609, FAS 217 and all the many other Corsairs we love so much will be here long after everyone on this board is dead and gone.
Very Respectfully,
Re: FAH 609 Buno 124715 deteriorating!
Wed Oct 19, 2011 3:14 pm
I believe that personal issues and grudges had come into play in this matter. As I understand the Honduran Museum does not get any funds from official or private sources and the only $$$ they have are the ones received thru their activities.
FAH-609 is a Honduras national treasure and all concerned must realize that.
FAH-609 is a Honduras national treasure and all concerned must realize that.
Re: FAH 609 Buno 124715 deteriorating!
Wed Oct 19, 2011 3:19 pm
Is there a possibility to remove the wings,saving space, thus making the plane smaller just to put it somewhere under cover. just temp. until you are able to resolve your issue? Maybe several tarps and bungy cords could do the trick to help keep the sun and rain off your plane? I hope this all works out in the end and your able to have a great display for your corsair.
Re: FAH 609 Buno 124715 deteriorating!
Thu Oct 20, 2011 11:03 pm
Friends of FAH 609 Folks:
Good day!
For the review of the canopy folks, the actual damage/status of the R/Side of the cabin of FAH 609. Buno 124715 at FMAH Museum. Photo 619 c. Oct-2009.
2 B cont....
Good day!
For the review of the canopy folks, the actual damage/status of the R/Side of the cabin of FAH 609. Buno 124715 at FMAH Museum. Photo 619 c. Oct-2009.
2 B cont....
Re: FAH 609 Buno 124715 deteriorating!
Sun Oct 23, 2011 7:38 am
FAH 609 Folks;
A little bit of good news on the saga of FAH 609 Buno 124715!
We 've learned via diplomatic channels that FAH 609 will eventually be placed under shelter. What do the word "eventually" means??.... is what we are trying to find with the folks involved with this matter.
For the regular FMAH museum visitor, the aircraft is doing fine at the back of the museum in outside storage. However, when you get close to the warbird you can really see what's slowly taking place. More photos soon! Photo via 619.
Pictured below, is how the R/elevator area looked inside the FMAH hangar c. Oct 2009.
2 B Cont...
A little bit of good news on the saga of FAH 609 Buno 124715!
We 've learned via diplomatic channels that FAH 609 will eventually be placed under shelter. What do the word "eventually" means??.... is what we are trying to find with the folks involved with this matter.
For the regular FMAH museum visitor, the aircraft is doing fine at the back of the museum in outside storage. However, when you get close to the warbird you can really see what's slowly taking place. More photos soon! Photo via 619.
Pictured below, is how the R/elevator area looked inside the FMAH hangar c. Oct 2009.
2 B Cont...
Last edited by zorro7 on Mon Oct 24, 2011 8:24 am, edited 1 time in total.
Re: FAH 609 Buno 124715 deteriorating!
Sun Oct 23, 2011 8:19 pm
zorro7 wrote:FAH 609 Folks;
A little bit of good news on the saga of FAH 609 Buno 124715!
We 've learned via diplomatic channels that FAH 609 will eventually be placed under shelter. What the word "eventually" means is what we are trying to find with the folks involved with this matter.
For the regular FMAH museum visitor, the aircraft is doing fine at the back of the museum in outside storage. However, when you get close to the warbird you can really see what's slowly taking place. More photos soon! Photo via 619.
Pictured below, is how the R/elevator area looked inside the FMAH hangar c. Oct 2009.
2 B Cont...
Hmmm... Fabric can get that way pretty quickly, and is not a "cheap" fix. Also, there are plenty of static canopies in that kind of condition. Perhaps you should be helping with fundraising efforts for the museum if you love the airplane so much?
Ryan
Re: FAH 609 Buno 124715 deteriorating!
Sun Oct 23, 2011 10:27 pm
Vought F4U-5N Buno 124715 FAH 609 c.Sept 2011....we hear you!! Photo Via HRR.
Re: FAH 609 Buno 124715 deteriorating!
Mon Oct 24, 2011 9:38 pm
FAH 609 Folks:
Vought F4U-5N Buno 124715 FAH 609 as of Oct-22-2011..silently waiting to be rescued!! Photo 619.
p.s ...Yes, we are still talking Corsair aircraft in here!!!
Vought F4U-5N Buno 124715 FAH 609 as of Oct-22-2011..silently waiting to be rescued!! Photo 619.
p.s ...Yes, we are still talking Corsair aircraft in here!!!
Re: FAH 609 Buno 124715 deteriorating!
Tue Oct 25, 2011 1:51 pm
As ramp staff at a museum I can tell you that leaving aircraft out in the elements without constant upkeep will take it's toll. At the very least it needs a crew chief to document the aircraft condition and run down a checklist to take care of much needed maintenance. The sun will eat up the cockpit and canopy of any aircraft left out in the open for any extended period of time. Also at issue is pest control, such as birds which make a mess of aircraft left outside. Does this museum do at least monthly maintenance checklist on the aircraft to lessen the damage of leaving it out will do to it? If not, I suggest it would be a good idea to assign a volunteer to that aircraft and have him do preventative maintenance and upkeep on it and document it in a notebook so you can have a maintenance history of the aircraft for the museum that you can refer to.