Warbird Information Exchange

From a discussion on another forum based outside of North America.

There seems to be an expectation in some circles that ALL Museums should be free or by donation....I'd like the thoughts of those on WIX to add to the input as I would really like to understand where this comes from.

Heres the post in part.

"Now I fully appreciate the distances involved between countries and the cultural differences as well but this article from TwinOtter23 inspired me to follow up the discussion.

http://www.museumsassociation.org/ca...nd-the-lottery

Thanks for the article TO

We are a private not for profit society and museum in Canada, member driven, have a large volunteer contingent and a limited staff.

As such we operate on a comparative shoe string.

Without admission charges we would be out of action...period.

There is no government funding for operations. There is capital funding for building and some restoration projects from various levels of government.

Corporate donations...insignificant for operations but sometimes generous for restorations

Public donations, while appreciated and highly sought after only cover percentage points of the required operating budget.

Yet public expectations are high and increasing with the expectations of programming, interactives, enhanced displays and other features

Hours of operation.....I open the doors at 7:30am and regularly work to past 10pm to cover public hours 10-6 weekdays/10-4 weekends as well as the meetings, programs etc in the evening.

The public programs and benefits we offer range from
-Seniors programming
-Education programming
-Work experience programs for those with physical and other issues

In addition to being a museum and education centre.

Restorations cost hundred of thousands of dollars as do displays etc.

The hours we have to operate are beyond what volunteers can offer so we have to have staff.

In spite of cutting every corner and stretching pennies into copper wire its a tough haul. Staff are paid well under market and do it because of the passion.

Yet if we did not provide this door to our aviation history it would be lost.
All the other benefits we provide from the programming mentioned to the economic impacts generated by our tourism drivers would be lost.

So I do not understand how free admission or admission by donation for a non government museum can be expected by anyone.

Please enlighten me I would appreciate understanding the point of view.

Rant over

Tom"

Tell me your thoughts as this really is an information gathering excercise.

Tom

_________________
Alberta Aviation Museum
Edmonton Aviation Heritage Society

Most of the non-government museums I've been to in the US lately charge an admission fee. Anyone who feels that a museum in this category should be free is delusional.

Walt

_________________
If God had intended airplane engines to have horizontally-opposed cylinders, Pratt & Whitney would have built them that way.

I wish they could all be free too.....but, if you
are self sustaining as we are at Battleship Park
ya gotta buy paint and pay staff. Just can't
happen.....

Museum's have to pay the bills, staff, etc. They can and should charge an admission, unless of course it's government owned, then I can see no admission. I go to museums with the expectation of paying up to $15-20 for an admission. I don't think there's anything unreasonable about that, unless they're charging an arm and a leg for additional attractions on top of that.

_________________
Matt

People may not fully understand what costs are involved with running an all-volunteer, non-profit museum, and sometimes they need to be educated. Most museums have to pay for things like. . .

- Rent (or property taxes if the Museum owns their land)

- Insurance (liability for the organization, and coverage for the buildings and other owned items)

- Utilities and services (electricity, water, sewer, natural gas or propane, telephone, internet, trash pickup, groundskeepers, cleaning service, etc)

- Upkeep, maintenance, and repair of the building(s) and property

- Upkeep, maintenance, and repair of the aircraft, both static and flying

- Upkeep, maintenance, and repair of ground support equipment and vehicles (trucks, tugs, etc)

- Advertising (if you don't advertise, no one will know you exist!)

- Fuel for aircraft, ground support equipment, and vehicles

- Miscellaneous supplies (printer ink, printer and FAX paper, toilet paper, kitchen supplies, et al)

- Replacement of worn out or broken infrastructure stuff (tables, chairs, desks, computers, et al)

When people start griping about having to pay $8.00 each to enter the Museum, I start informing them about what their money is used for. It's amazing how many people hand me a ten-spot and tell me to keep the change.

IMHO, government-run museums that are supported by the taxpayers should offer free admission.

_________________
Dean Hemphill, K5DH
Port Charlotte, Florida

Truth be told the museum that charges 8.00 should probably be charging 10.00 and putting the extra 2.00 away for a rainy day fund. Even that needs to be evaluated periodically to stay ahead of inflation.

_________________
"You cannot invade the mainland United States. There would be a rifle behind each blade of grass..."
Admiral Isoruku Yamamoto

I certain have no problem paying $10 to visit most museums. If I don`t throw something else in the donation jar I feel guilty. Most museums make huge efforts to keep their doors open. An admission charge is not unreasonable.

Mike

_________________
Mike R. Henniger
Aviation Enthusiast & Photographer
http://www.AerialVisuals.ca
http://www.facebook.com/AerialVisuals

Do you want to find locations of displayed, stored or active aircraft? Then start with the The Locator.
Do you want to find or contribute to the documented history of an aircraft? If so then start with the Airframes Database.

Tom. It's a cultural difference between N America (particularly the US) and the UK and to a lesser degree in Australasia etc.

Not at all, that's misunderstanding the post I made and the discussion which was built around UK norms, and soliciting opinion for a new UK museum. There's no suggestion by anyone that any form of 'all' museums should be free. OK?

Separately, and with all due respect (and I haven't bothered to read the detail, as I have a sofa calling) it's a complete waste of time justifying costs. You're either preaching to the converted, or they aren't interested in your long, whiney (to them) bitching about it. Wow them with the museum, so they'll donate big, don't give 'em a big downer about how you deserve 'a handout'.

Regards,

_________________
James K

"Switch on the underwater landing lights"
Emilio Largo, Thunderball.

www.VintageAeroWriter.com

I can say that here in my part of the world (Canada) the museums are not free. Even the government "owned" ones. That being said there are admission "free" days (about 2 times a year) which seem to balance out people's opinions.

While envious of some of the US citizens and their free National museums. (I know most don't have easy access to these museums due to distance and whatnot) I have no problems paying the entrance fee here (around $18 CND for a family)

While I do go to the museums whenever I want (free or non-free days) I have actually been there more while volunteering for other museum-hosted events. These events actually provide more bang for your buck anyway as you generally get to see behind the scenes which I find more interesting anyway.

Mark

Thanks for the comments everyone.

And on behalf ourselves and likely every other private not for profit Museum (and privately owned ones) thatnks for the support.

JDK
I've replied on the other forum so I won't clutter this one.

That said...Bitchin never wins when raising money, selling does.

Thanks to everyone for your comments

Tom

_________________
Alberta Aviation Museum
Edmonton Aviation Heritage Society

Tom, I think it fair to say you've put your museum on the Key and WIX maps very firmly, and for the right reasons.

_________________
James K

"Switch on the underwater landing lights"
Emilio Largo, Thunderball.

www.VintageAeroWriter.com

I don't have any issues with paying to visit a quality museum. I've bought my way into King Tut a couple of times with different wives when it's toured the U.S. (love all that lapus), regularly visit FHC and HFF. I love going to SAM (Seattle Art Museum) to look @ their displays. I go to MoF on rare occasion mostly because it's a long way from my house, and I may have grown up in Seattle, but I hate going to the place!

People line up all day, every day to throw out between $80 and $105 per head to visit the Big Rats House on Harbor Blvd. in Anaheim and then continue to toss intaglio prints of dead Presidents around the place all day, I've always been surprised they haven't figured out a way to charge you $5 if you ask the time there. (last time I was there was in 1993 and it hadn't changed since 1956 or 1972).

So, paying a few dollars to visit an airplane museum shouldn't be an issue unless they want Cadillac admissions to view two rusty CUB fuselages and a blown R-670 engine.

_________________
Don't make me go get my flying monkeys-

I totally agree. I have volunteered with the 8th Air Force Museum at Barksdale AFB which is a satellite of the NMUSAF. A common misconception we ran into there was that because we were housed in a building on an Air Force Base and had USAF aircraft on display on base property that we were fully funded by the government. While the government did provide us with a building, the aircraft, and a curator, everything else was up to us. We had to raise money to maintain the building, the aircraft (parked outdoors), build exhibits and purchase merchandise for the gift shop. Then they came and audited us once a year and wondered why the airplanes were in such bad shape.

Fast forward 20 years and I am now volunteering with the VFM and we work our tails off to get every dime we can from anyone generous enough to open thier pocketbook. Chuckie would still be in Fort Worth if we had been able to find sponsors.

_________________
Bill Gorin
Vintage Flying Museum
http://www.vintageflyingmuseum.org
https://www.facebook.com/#!/group.php?gid=57513906106

Admission to the South Air Force Museum, based at Swartkops, near Pretoria, is free.
At the same time they are really struggling for funding of their preservation projects ...and even the maintenance of there existing displays.
As much as I enjoy "free" it makes no sense to me for them not to charge.

I dont know whether its a peculiar South African issue ... but as I understand it, if they do charge, it goes into the general South African Government fiscus ... and thus the Museum would not see the direct benefit anyway.

I have no objection to paying a museum admission fee to something that I know I want to see or am willing to take a chance on. Having been around a few museums and/or historic attractions, I'm sort of aware of the basic economics of the business. Mind you, if I'm taking a chance, I'd like for the risk to be somewhat less than what I'd readily pay for a museum that I knew more about or had experience with.

There are variations on the theme. Take the late, lamented Florence Air and Missile Museum. It had Cold War aircraft that I wasn't going to see anywhere else short of Dayton or Pensacola. It also appeared to desperately need the money. I felt quite willing to pay whatever they asked and like it because the rarity and scope (to me) of their collection. I also happened to know that it was less than $20. I vaguely remember either buying whatever we could get our hands on or leaving them a nice donation because I liked what they had. I'd never been hands-on with the Century Series before. Similarly, when Glacier Girl was still in Kentucky, the group I went to see her with spent a fair amount of cash in the gift shop and left something in the donation bucket because we a) weren't charged and b) thought highly of the operation.

On the other hand, that the Air Force Museum doesn't charge is great---if I remember right, their funding formula involves the public tax dollar, and that's fine. Others may of course disagree. Now, the museum's gift shop charges sticker price for books that I can get from Amazon or other retailers for as much as half. Way I see it, that's admission and direct support of say that next hangar (and perhaps a proper home for Air Vehicle No. 1!) and also a show of support for the collection. Where else am I going to see a B-58A that doesn't involve somewhere farther away?

There is, however, a ceiling. I don't know what it is as a general rule, but I feel certain that I will know it when I see it. Take catching a ride in Sentimental Journey or some of the Confederate Air Force planes that I've had the opportunity to see. I'd love to do it, but I'd balk at the cost, no matter whether I had the money or not simply because $400 or more in the late 1980s and early 1990s was a lot of money.

The point I'm making at length here is that I don't expect a non-subsidized, non-State or non-Federal museum to let me through their doors without paying for it somewhere, whether that's at the gate, the gift shop or both.