FHC Dora and Oscar

[Franklin]

With all the attention given to the newly arrived FW190 at the FHC. Just wondering about the reality and logistics of preparing and flying their dora and oscar. I know it's been stated in the past that these two aircraft are extremely rare and because of their rarity should not and will not be flown, but wouldn't their 109 and newly acquired 190 be placed in the same rare, not to be flown, catagory? And wouldn't this be true of most of the others in the collection? I believe they all have a certain above the normal rareness to them. opinions? ... As I am one for airplanes to be flown, I do get the too rare to be flown philosophy. But I guess if you were to fly one, why not all? I would imagine it's not because of money per Paul Allen's empire. Another ???? mark is why the need for the MIG when there are so many other very rare WW2 era airplanes that could have used the MIG's massive resources to restore. I know, it's Allen's money and he can do what he wants. I get that, but I'm just trying to understand his motives for the selection in aircraft. Personally I would have stuck to WW2 era aircraft only and sh*tcan the jets, but that's just me

Just so there's no confusion, Paul Allen is a warbird hero IMHO ... anything he decides to do is a great blessing to us all. I hope he and the other big guns in the warbird collection business keep it going for a long, long time. As well as the smaller collectors.

BTW Paul we still need the following flying warbirds:

bf110
Stuka
Val
Kate
Tony
Ju88
Typhoon
TBD

Did I miss anything?

[The Inspector]

That's been the plan all along. They will not be flown because they are the last of the last.
And who says he doesn't have some or all on your list?

The Mig was reassembled by John Sessions @ Heritage Flight Foundation across the field from FHC and it was all there just needed reassembly (and a couple of structural improvements). John flew the plane then sold it to FHC to finance a couple more airplanes for HFF and P.A. has a REALLY LOUD jet to P.O. all the luddites who live in Mukilteo and complain that commercial flights in and out of KPAE would affect their property values (and some of those clowns managed to get a settlement for 'excessive noise' out of the BNSF railroad which has used the same railbeds for over 100years) go ahead and sue Vulcan Inc. over your piddly noise issue.

[DoraNineFan]

Allen owns Ju 87R-2 Wk.No 0875709, according to Mikael's website. Maybe that restoration just isn't on the radar yet. Surely there's a Stuka project sitting at the bottom of a lake somewhere waiting for recovery?

Regarding the Dora, I have my doubts it will ever fly. It would be nice if it were brought out and run up a few times a year. The engine was supposedly given a thorough going-over during the final restoration. There are a few Dora projects which might get one flying some day.

[CrewDawg]

Sorry to be slightly off topic, but since we're talking about FHC, what's the deal with the Aircraft Restoration Mgr job that Vulcan has had posted for several months now? I'm surprised that they haven't found any of of a number of very talented and experienced people to fill that job. It would be my dream job if the money was right. (Still gotta pay the bills you know). Is there something I'm missing or are they just not offering enough money to attract the right talent?

[12XU2A3X3]

BTW Paul we still need the following flying warbirds:

bf110
Stuka
Val
Kate
Tony
Ju88
Typhoon
TBD

Did I miss anything?

Beaufighter
P-39
A-20G
B-26G (from France , give them an A-26)
Betty
B-24
P-61
SB2C

[Franklin]

That's been the plan all along. They will not be flown because they are the last of the last.

Correct, but my point being what makes the new FHC 190 any less last of the last than the dora and ocsar? The P-40C could be put in that class as well. I'm under the assumption the dora could also be a non-flyer because it could very well be a complicated mechanical machine. But I would assume the ocsar to be relatively simple a machine. IHMO ... BTW I now know Paul has what? a stuka, P-38, me189 ...

[JohnTerrell]

Obviously this matter could be talked about to no end without direct input from those in charge at FHC themselves. To be clear however, there are now three P-40B/C's flying in the world today, with other airframes around, and two Bf 109E's flying in the world today, with other airframes around, so these aren't exactly the 'last' of their type, however rare they may be. Besides FHC's 190A-5, there is the 'White 1' Foundation's original Fw 190F-8 as well, which is being restored just as to original and airworthy standard, and it too will be flown with an operational BMW 801 fitted.

I would say the decision making in large part regarding the aircraft is simply priorities...I would imagine with two Fw 190's, and leaving the model variant designator off of them, having one flying in your collection really doesn't put much importance on needing to have the other one flying as well. It would be interesting, the value on the Fw 190D (or A for that matter) what they would fetch in the open warbird market exactly as they are right now. I also wonder what the insurance costs are compared to say a P-51 or P-40. The greatest priority regarding the aircraft within the collection right now, would seem to be to continue to maintain and operate the examples that are in flying condition at present, that have come into the museum in up-to-date flying form. They haven't shown much energy in getting aircraft back into flying status that have come into the museum without having been flown in advance, but there is work undergoing along those lines, such as on the museum's F6F Hellcat with the goal of hopefully getting it flying, or so I understand.

In my mental catalog, there is a combat-vet FG-1D, P-38, He 111 (Spanish-built but being fitted with original German engines, or so the talk goes), Fw 189, B-17E, Me 262 (original), Stuka, and at least one other Japanese Zero, under ownership/various states of restoration outside of the museum facilities, not to mention the B-25J that is finishing up (and more?).

And I don't know how many people may remember it or not, but the FHC's 'Oscar' did get air under its wings at the Warbirds Over Wanaka airhsow in I believe it was 1996. On a fast taxi in front of the crowd, it became airborne for a moment before settling back down. At that time it had just finished restoration to airworthy condition, and was owned by the Alpine Fighter Collection in New Zealand. I know there seems to be a stance against flying it, but I would be surprised to see the Oscar fly in the future if the decision was made to do so.

Last edited by JohnTerrell on Sat Apr 23, 2011 10:26 am, edited 4 times in total.

[The Inspector]

Crewdawg,
FHC has had a number of D.O.M.'s and your odds of succeeding would be better if you were in a Kamikaze Squadron, most have quit in total disgust over constantly changing variables and conflicted conflicts.

Franklin,
It's just the way they justify how they do things, Churchills assessment of Russia being an enigma wrapped in a mystery very aptly applies to how Vulcan does things.

[Franklin]

Inspector can you elaborate a bit on Vulcan Inc as they relate to Paul Allen's FHC ... I'm aware of who they are in other business endevors, but a little vague on their role in the warbird world.

[oz rb fan]

And I don't know how many people may remember it or not, but the FHC's 'Oscar' did get air under its wings at the Warbirds Over Wanaka airhsow in I believe it was 1996. On a fast taxi in front of the crowd, it became airborne for a moment before settling back down. At that time it had just finished restoration to airworthy condition, and was owned by the Alpine Fighter Collection in New Zealand. I know there seems to be a stance against flying it, but I would be surprised to see the Oscar fly in the future if the decision was made to do so.[/quote]

the fhc oscar wasn't rebuilt to airworthy standards by the alpine fighter collection,as at the time it was stated that to rebuild it to fully airworthy condition would have made more replica than original Japanese ww11 fighter,so it was bought up to a live but non airworthy condition,the hop it made at warbirds over wanaka was a complete accident (much like the victor in the uk a couple of years ago)
we have one replica oscar in the air and iirc two others at gosshawk waiting for buyer's,why risk one of only 3 intact survivors when a very nice replica will fill the job nicely.i would love to see a similar thing done with ki84's that would really put the cat amongst the pigeons !!!
as for the dora it is the only d-13 in existence and one of very few d's left at all and again there are replica's being built(one or two will even have jumo engines in them)
the a5 is one of quiet a few bmw powered 190's around and there fore(in my mind at least)is worth putting in the air(even though there now a few replicas flying)the same with the 109's and p40b/c's

[JohnTerrell]

the fhc oscar wasn't rebuilt to airworthy standards by the alpine fighter collection,as at the time it was stated that to rebuild it to fully airworthy condition would have made more replica than original Japanese ww11 fighter,so it was bought up to a live but non airworthy condition,the hop it made at warbirds over wanaka was a complete accident (much like the victor in the uk a couple of years ago)
we have one replica oscar in the air and iirc two others at gosshawk waiting for buyer's,why risk one of only 3 intact survivors when a very nice replica will fill the job nicely.

Thank you for the clarification regarding the Oscar! And what I meant to say in my previous post is that I 'wouldn't' be surprised if it were to eventually fly again in the future, but given your post, perhaps so. I guess I was under the false sense that it was more/less capable of sustained operational flight even back when it was in New Zealand (though of course not 'intentionally' flown).

[The Inspector]

FHC is a division of Vulcan Inc. as are things like the Portland Jailblazers of the NBA and the SeaHacks in the NFL (which should change their corporate name to Not Friggin' Likely)

[Rob Mears]

Paul Allen needs to work out some trivial business deal with the Chinese and just bring home the P-61. On his level of operation, it would happen like an afterthought...end of story. C'mon Paul, that one's got your name written all over it, for real. Ultra rare with an exceptional story, etc. There it sits just a waitin'!!

[bdk]

Seems to me that the Fw-190D and the Oscar are mostly original and not major restoration/re-creations. That might explain why they are "too valuable to fly." Any damage would seriously detract from thier originality.

[Franklin]

Seems to me that the Fw-190D and the Oscar are mostly original and not major restoration/re-creations. That might explain why they are "too valuable to fly." Any damage would seriously detract from thier originality.

This is why I was thinking the same about the 190A5. very rare in it's originality and history and I believe I heard a number in the 8 to 10 million range to restore? Don't get me wrong, I'm elated to know it will fy, but wow! what a tragedy if it's pranged or worse. And no I'm usually not the bearer of bad luck.