Warbird Information Exchange

Well that's all clear, thanks to us, then!

And absolutely no idea as to the final dispositions of the Sopwith Doves.

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James K

"Switch on the underwater landing lights"
Emilio Largo, Thunderball.

www.VintageAeroWriter.com

A favorite variation of this theme of what's under the water: http://perdurabo10.tripod.com/themindof ... id600.html

What happened to G-CAAY.....

C/n W/O 2714. Initially registered to Sopwith as K-122, this prototype had a fin and rudder from a Sopwith Camel; reregistered G-EACM on May 20, 1919; sold to Bishop-Barker Aeroplanes Ltd. of Canada, in May 1920, registered as G-CAAY; written off at Sault Ste. Marie, Ontario in 1920.

In Lake Erie? It's not all that deep.

Most of the preserved wrecks come from the anaerobic layers of the northern great lakes. There was a case in the late 70s of a Brigantine raised in the Green Bay area that still had sails on the yards and rope in the blocks. (But as soon as they floated it and put it in a pond near Duluth it disolved into a puddle of mush.)

I've dived on shipwrecks in Huron at 80-100 ft. It's cold, but very little is actually preserved -- all the metal is corroded and covered with zebra mussels. There is history at that depth -- loads of it -- but no re-useable structure.

Dave

JDK,

Thanks so much. I figured if anyone knew the story it might have been you, I guess we'll just have to wait and see if someone in the GWN turns up with sepia toned photos of great grandpa Ollie and his old airplane. Seems that it would have been cheaper to buy a surplus CANUCK or JENNY than import from outside.

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Don't make me go get my flying monkeys-

Not 1920.. 1921

Quebec Telegraph Friday 16 Sept 1921

Had Narrow Escape

Sault St. Marie, Ontario


September 16 - Aviator Albert Highstone, while piloting a Sopwith Dove plane, crashed 1200 feet
in a trial flight, but escaped with minor injuries. The machine was to have been an attraction at the
fair here and was being placed in readiness for a series of flights. It landed in a tree near the wireless
station and will be almost a total loss"


I believe the pilot was actually Albert R Highstone (1883-1959) of St. Ignace Michigan....

I'm always amazed by what pops up on this forum that starts out as a sort of 'off the wall' question or comment.....Thanks PaulM

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Don't make me go get my flying monkeys-

tom, elaborate on that question!! or is it a joke??

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tom d. friedman - hey!!! those fokkers were messerschmitts!! * without ammunition, the usaf would be just another flying club!!! * better to have piece of mind than piece of tail!!

i'm no diver, but how do you explain the wrecks pulled from lake michigan?? most of those birds have been in amazing condition once pulled at twice & even three times the depth of erie. i understand the oxygen factor once these relics hit the surface. from my source who has scoped out more wrecks on lake erie she speaks the contrary of your opinion.

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tom d. friedman - hey!!! those fokkers were messerschmitts!! * without ammunition, the usaf would be just another flying club!!! * better to have piece of mind than piece of tail!!

Some 1920/1930 incidents in and around Lake Erie - NO Dove!

Nov 10th 1920

Curtiss HS 2-L from Great Lakes Naval Training Station Seaplane crashed of Photographic mission

Lieutenant Harry E. Barr
Ensign Edwin M.Clarke Photographic Officer
Gunners Mate Frank John Caesar


Wreckage later found along East Shore of Lake Michagan - all crew killed

Not Lake Erie but picked up anyway


Oct 19th 1927

Curtiss HS-2L G-CAOH


Jeff Fitchie, pilot of an Ontario Forestry Patrol airplane which crashed in Sault Ste. Marie was killed

Allen S. Grant of Toronto (the Observer) was badly injured

The pilot while making a sharp turn at low altitude, seaplane stalled and crashed.


Note: I don;t think this one ended up in Lake Erie



May 4th 1928

Aircraft (beleived to be a large Biplane) en-route Milwaukee to Boston side-slipped and then nose-dived into Lake Erie at 5.10
half a mile from Long Point Ontario lighthouse.

Both occupants killed:


John 0. Rosecrans aged 22 (Art Student at Harvard) - Piot
James M. Lapey - Insurance Salesman - Passenger



Registration unknown but the figures '90' were 0n the wing. Aircraft was Flying Milwaukee to Boston

Wreckage was salvaged



Sept 9th 1928

Curtiss P1-A 26-292

Lieutenant Joseph C. Soper, 25 years old, of Seventeenth Air Squadron Selfridge Field, Mich., fell to his death today when his airplane dived into Lake Erie during an aerial
exhibition in connection with the national rifle matches at Camp Perry, Ohio. Aircrafrt crashed in 4 feet of water and body recovered




June 29th 1930


Port Arthur, Ontario. Major John O. Leach of Sault Ste. Marie was killed here when his seaplane crashed to the water at 3:15 this afternoon.
on the waterfront witnessed the tragedy. Major Leach was manoeuvring the machine over the water when suddenly his engine stalled and he crashed
onto the water.

Major Leach was a veteran of WW1 and supposedly shot down by by Manfred von Richthofen an incident in which he lost his right leg

However I can;t find him here

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_vi ... Richthofen

Registration CF-

Maybe C-FAAC DH 60X c/n 884 which crashed in Canada sometime in June 1930




Dec 3rd 1932


Flying from Detroit to Pittsburg

Crashed a mile of Bar Point, just below the mouth of the Detroit River

4 killed

Patrick Tuohey (aged 36) (Pilot)
Thomas Neal Brown salesman
Miss Marcella Kopnitsky (aged 16/17) art student
Catherine Sies (age 29) waitress


Owned by Raymond Brown (brother of Victim)


Aircraft Recovered Dec 5th 1932

Registration unknown at present the aircrfat was Tri-Motor


Sept 1st 1934


Curtiss Y1P-22 (P-6E) 32-240

32-240 missing over Lake Erie Sep 1, 1934 (not Sept 24 1932 as per Baugher)

Lieut. Clement J. Gaster (Reserve Officer) of the First Army Pursuit group from Selfridge Feild, Michgan was attempting to fly over Lake Erie from Detroit.
Missing since he left Mt. Clemens for Cleveland en-route for Cleveland races



Sep 6th 1937

Biplane dived into Lake Erie half a mile south of Point Pelee, Ontatio

Three Detroit Flyers killed:

James Munro (pilot)
Harry Corley (owner of aircraft)
Jerome Tessens (employee of Corley)

Detroit to Cleveland to attend the national air races

Aircraft Registration unknown N-?

interesting info!! i'll pass it on to my erie dive pro friends.

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tom d. friedman - hey!!! those fokkers were messerschmitts!! * without ammunition, the usaf would be just another flying club!!! * better to have piece of mind than piece of tail!!

I think how much gets preserved in shallow waters is dependent on the mud -- how much of the airplane becomes covered, and how anaerobic those layers are.

But anything a zebra mussel can perch on and live, becomes useless as structure.

Dave

I know it is off-topic, but I want to learn more about this brigantine - name, age, history. What lessons were learned form this sad recovery? Is this perhaps why the two American War of 1812 wrecks in such pristine condition, in Canadian waters, have not been recovered?

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Kevin McCartney

I was curious yesterday too

http://www.acbs-bslol.com/Porthole/AlvinClark.htm

Anyone have any data on lake erie crashes in the 50's and 60's?

I am looking for info on a crash that took place near Port Colborne during that time, apparently the pilot couldn't find the aerodrome due to fog. My father told me this story as he lived there and heard the aircraft circling.

Unfortunatly, that is all I know.

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Remembering those that served in Bomber Command!

www.bombercrew.com