Thu Sep 08, 2005 5:14 pm
Well for mine I just hope someone recovers it whilst it is worth the effort - I believe she is getting more and more "liberated " of artifacts as the years go by.
I would love to see her come to Australia but if she doesn't then just any B17 would be great as we don't have one here and they played such a role here during the war. I am sure there are a couple of organisations here well capable of handling the operation so good luck!
There is another more interesting B17 to me in the Owen Stanley Ranges in PNG which although very wrecked is a much more historic aircraft which I would prefer to see brought out. B17E BuNo41-9234 if she is still there was a RAF airframe which never made it to the RAF and is a Phillipines and Indonesian Vet - well worth saving if she still exists in Black Cat Pass. I saw her several times and she has real Magic to her - Bring that one home !!
Regards
John P
I would love to see her come to Australia but if she doesn't then just any B17 would be great as we don't have one here and they played such a role here during the war. I am sure there are a couple of organisations here well capable of handling the operation so good luck!
There is another more interesting B17 to me in the Owen Stanley Ranges in PNG which although very wrecked is a much more historic aircraft which I would prefer to see brought out. B17E BuNo41-9234 if she is still there was a RAF airframe which never made it to the RAF and is a Phillipines and Indonesian Vet - well worth saving if she still exists in Black Cat Pass. I saw her several times and she has real Magic to her - Bring that one home !!
Regards
John P
Details on Black Cat Pass B-17
Thu Sep 08, 2005 7:18 pm
Here are the historical details on the B-17E 41-9234 mentioned:
http://www.pacificwrecks.com/aircraft/b-17/41-9234.html
Three of its crew are also still alive, pilot, co-pilot & bombardier. I have had the honor to interview the co-pilot, Hoggan and speak to the Australian Commando myself. Will add those interviews when time premits to the website.
http://www.pacificwrecks.com/aircraft/b-17/41-9234.html
Three of its crew are also still alive, pilot, co-pilot & bombardier. I have had the honor to interview the co-pilot, Hoggan and speak to the Australian Commando myself. Will add those interviews when time premits to the website.
Thu Sep 08, 2005 11:38 pm
Setter
With the insurance issues in Europe. You may one day get your wish and Sally B might find her way down under. Just my mindless thoughts mind you, that's all.
Shay
____________
Semper Fortis
With the insurance issues in Europe. You may one day get your wish and Sally B might find her way down under. Just my mindless thoughts mind you, that's all.
Shay
____________
Semper Fortis
Fri Sep 09, 2005 1:44 am
Shay
I don't think Sally B will really go anywhere as she is really an icon over there - I would hope she stays - there are still enough unwanted ones around for me - I really hope we get one of the PNG wrecks soon - that would be nice and I would prefer the banged up one rather than "Swamp Ghost'
Regards
John P
I don't think Sally B will really go anywhere as she is really an icon over there - I would hope she stays - there are still enough unwanted ones around for me - I really hope we get one of the PNG wrecks soon - that would be nice and I would prefer the banged up one rather than "Swamp Ghost'
Regards
John P
recoveries from New Guinea
Fri Sep 09, 2005 7:11 am
John,
No medium or heavy bomber has ever recovered from New Guinea that I know of to date (if I am wrong I will gladly stand corrected). The only exception would be the light bombers: A-20s the Royal Australian Air Force got in 1984 as an excercise (3 of them, restored 2 to static, "Hell'N Pelican" & "J is for Jessica"). And, back in the '74 another A-20 for Yesterday's Air Force from Tadji.
Plenty of P-40s (nearly everyone I know of) have been recovered for warbird market since 1970s. Matter of fact aside from a few violent crash sites and a couple in water, I can't think of any left as wrecks offhand. Same with P-47 and P-38 wrecks, just a few partial wrecks left, and rumors of a few intact ones in far off places. The post-war scrappers melted the rest down post war.
Most recently, in 2004, the best (?) P-47s, of MIA pilot Marion Lutes was recovered from a mountain, and two P-40 crash sites. Links to these are off PacificWrecks.com Others were dug up at Finschafen and are at WestPac in CA (3 P-47s and at least one P-38) and F4U parts from New Britain airfield.
Two Australian groups do the salvages with permits from the PNG Museum; HARS (working with others at times Precision Aerospace, Classic Jets and other individuals etc) and '75 Squadron' of Melborne. A couple other wrecks were attempted to be salvaged by others without permits but did not happen.
There are 'rumors' of everything from P-61s to the kitchen sink being dug up or found, but as of yet, no photos, serials or details to confirm those tails. There were P-61s in New Guinea (assembled at Finschafen & flown off to fronts) and even later war planes like P-51s but no line-ups of pristine wrecks of either type that I know of!
I have asked all the known salvagers for interviews, but only some have agreed or provided information. Anyone with any other serials or photos let me know. The more history that is in the public domain, the more we all can know & learn from these wrecks.
Even 60+ years on there are errors in records, and so forth that are sometimes not resolved until a wreck is visited. For instance, one P-40 examined (and later recovered in '04) the pilot, Thorvaldson, is still alive reviewed photos & video of bullet holes in his plane. He had been denied purple heart for wounds that mission as it was thought during the war his plane crashed due to mechanical failure. So a happy ending there!
Hope this helps.
No medium or heavy bomber has ever recovered from New Guinea that I know of to date (if I am wrong I will gladly stand corrected). The only exception would be the light bombers: A-20s the Royal Australian Air Force got in 1984 as an excercise (3 of them, restored 2 to static, "Hell'N Pelican" & "J is for Jessica"). And, back in the '74 another A-20 for Yesterday's Air Force from Tadji.
Plenty of P-40s (nearly everyone I know of) have been recovered for warbird market since 1970s. Matter of fact aside from a few violent crash sites and a couple in water, I can't think of any left as wrecks offhand. Same with P-47 and P-38 wrecks, just a few partial wrecks left, and rumors of a few intact ones in far off places. The post-war scrappers melted the rest down post war.
Most recently, in 2004, the best (?) P-47s, of MIA pilot Marion Lutes was recovered from a mountain, and two P-40 crash sites. Links to these are off PacificWrecks.com Others were dug up at Finschafen and are at WestPac in CA (3 P-47s and at least one P-38) and F4U parts from New Britain airfield.
Two Australian groups do the salvages with permits from the PNG Museum; HARS (working with others at times Precision Aerospace, Classic Jets and other individuals etc) and '75 Squadron' of Melborne. A couple other wrecks were attempted to be salvaged by others without permits but did not happen.
There are 'rumors' of everything from P-61s to the kitchen sink being dug up or found, but as of yet, no photos, serials or details to confirm those tails. There were P-61s in New Guinea (assembled at Finschafen & flown off to fronts) and even later war planes like P-51s but no line-ups of pristine wrecks of either type that I know of!
I have asked all the known salvagers for interviews, but only some have agreed or provided information. Anyone with any other serials or photos let me know. The more history that is in the public domain, the more we all can know & learn from these wrecks.
Even 60+ years on there are errors in records, and so forth that are sometimes not resolved until a wreck is visited. For instance, one P-40 examined (and later recovered in '04) the pilot, Thorvaldson, is still alive reviewed photos & video of bullet holes in his plane. He had been denied purple heart for wounds that mission as it was thought during the war his plane crashed due to mechanical failure. So a happy ending there!
Hope this helps.
Fri Sep 09, 2005 7:40 am
Hi Justin
There were a few more A20s than that recovered - 10 in total I think and some of these have now and will be soon going to Precision aerospace for restoration including the Famous Big Nig. I think the attitudes and abilities of the recovery teams have changed a lot and I think given the skill sets they have it won't be long before more big things happen, I also think the eastern and scandinavian european stuff will become much more of a focus .
Exciting times ahead for the next 5-10 years I think.
Regards
John P
There were a few more A20s than that recovered - 10 in total I think and some of these have now and will be soon going to Precision aerospace for restoration including the Famous Big Nig. I think the attitudes and abilities of the recovery teams have changed a lot and I think given the skill sets they have it won't be long before more big things happen, I also think the eastern and scandinavian european stuff will become much more of a focus .
Exciting times ahead for the next 5-10 years I think.
Regards
John P
Fri Sep 09, 2005 7:44 am
Col Rohr
Indeed you are correct - the entire wing assembly and other parts of a B24 were recovered from the rimu valley PNG to facilitate the restoration of the Werribee B24 - Well spotted that man!! More B24s there too as well as at least 3 B17s and a pile of Japanese stuff that suddenly may be comming out - seems they got a map somewhere ..........
Regards
John P
Indeed you are correct - the entire wing assembly and other parts of a B24 were recovered from the rimu valley PNG to facilitate the restoration of the Werribee B24 - Well spotted that man!! More B24s there too as well as at least 3 B17s and a pile of Japanese stuff that suddenly may be comming out - seems they got a map somewhere ..........
Regards
John P
Fri Sep 09, 2005 7:45 am
Col Rohr
Indeed you are correct - the entire wing assembly and other parts of a B24 were recovered from the rimu valley PNG to facilitate the restoration of the Werribee B24 - Well spotted that man!! More B24s there too as well as at least 3 B17s and a pile of Japanese stuff that suddenly may be comming out - seems they got a map somewhere ..........
Regards
John P
Indeed you are correct - the entire wing assembly and other parts of a B24 were recovered from the rimu valley PNG to facilitate the restoration of the Werribee B24 - Well spotted that man!! More B24s there too as well as at least 3 B17s and a pile of Japanese stuff that suddenly may be comming out - seems they got a map somewhere ..........
Regards
John P
Fri Sep 09, 2005 8:02 am
Tallichet has TWO A-20s.
One in PA and one at Pima.
One in PA and one at Pima.
Fri Sep 09, 2005 8:14 am
I agree with Setter about the Black Cat Pass B-17.
However, I do have one question.
If there is no controversy about it, why hasn't it been recovered?
(I haven't heard of any controversies)
Did I spell controversy wrong?
However, I do have one question.
If there is no controversy about it, why hasn't it been recovered?
(I haven't heard of any controversies)
Did I spell controversy wrong?
Fri Sep 09, 2005 9:18 am
Setter, Rob, and anyone else who might shed some light on a story I was told years ago. I was told by a college professor about two PNG exchange students he had. They told him a story of going back into the bush where the headhunters were and finding an almost intact Japanese airfield. Supposedly there were aircraft in hangars and airfiels equipment. They told him that they were able to get a small truck running and drove it around for some time. Could there be anything remotely real about this story ?
Fri Sep 09, 2005 10:15 am
RickH
PNG is pretty picked over and this is most unlikely - all the airfields were known etc - Sorry I think it was just wishful thinking
Rehards
John P
PNG is pretty picked over and this is most unlikely - all the airfields were known etc - Sorry I think it was just wishful thinking
Rehards
John P
Fri Sep 09, 2005 2:15 pm
I thought that the Tallichet A-20 being restored in PA came from Nicaragua. Does that mean that David has/had four A-20's?
Cheers,
Richard
Cheers,
Richard
Fri Sep 09, 2005 6:59 pm
Hi Guys
See we have this little button up the top of the page which makes our forum "King of the Pack" so as to speak because of a lot of hard work we have our very own "Warbirds Registry" and I think it's pretty good. So when you ask about where a particular A20 was from - Wala!!!
Serial #: 44-0020 Construction #: 23243Civil Registration: N5066N N99385 Model: A-20H-1-DO Name: None Status: Restoration Last info: 2002 History: Delta Drilling Co/Texas Engineering & Manufacturing Co, Dallas, TX, June 25, 1947.- Registered as N5066N.Texas Aircraft Trading Co, Tyler, TX, Aug. 20, 1947.Universal Aviation Company, Tulsa, OK, June 1, 1948. Leonard Burns, San Francisco, CA, July 22, 1948.
American Airmotive Corporation, Mimi, FL, Apr. 4, 1949-1951.
- Noted as executive conversion, Miami, FL, 1955.
Delivered to FA Nicaragua as FAN50, circa 1956.
- Displayed in park, Carretera del Sur, Managua, Nicaragua, 1975-1977.
Military Aircraft Restoration Corp, Chino, CA, Mar. 14, 1977-2002.
- Registered as N99385.
- Open storage, MARC yard, Chino, 1980-1991.
- Under restoration by Air Heritage Inc, Beaver Falls, PA, 1991-2002.
-- Trucked from Chino to Beaver Falls, 1991.
-- Under restoration to airworthy, planned first flight 2003.
Kindest regards
John
See we have this little button up the top of the page which makes our forum "King of the Pack" so as to speak because of a lot of hard work we have our very own "Warbirds Registry" and I think it's pretty good. So when you ask about where a particular A20 was from - Wala!!!
Serial #: 44-0020 Construction #: 23243Civil Registration: N5066N N99385 Model: A-20H-1-DO Name: None Status: Restoration Last info: 2002 History: Delta Drilling Co/Texas Engineering & Manufacturing Co, Dallas, TX, June 25, 1947.- Registered as N5066N.Texas Aircraft Trading Co, Tyler, TX, Aug. 20, 1947.Universal Aviation Company, Tulsa, OK, June 1, 1948. Leonard Burns, San Francisco, CA, July 22, 1948.
American Airmotive Corporation, Mimi, FL, Apr. 4, 1949-1951.
- Noted as executive conversion, Miami, FL, 1955.
Delivered to FA Nicaragua as FAN50, circa 1956.
- Displayed in park, Carretera del Sur, Managua, Nicaragua, 1975-1977.
Military Aircraft Restoration Corp, Chino, CA, Mar. 14, 1977-2002.
- Registered as N99385.
- Open storage, MARC yard, Chino, 1980-1991.
- Under restoration by Air Heritage Inc, Beaver Falls, PA, 1991-2002.
-- Trucked from Chino to Beaver Falls, 1991.
-- Under restoration to airworthy, planned first flight 2003.
Kindest regards
John
Sun Sep 11, 2005 5:39 am
Hi Guys
To keep you happy with a few recovered A20 snaps of the Wangarratta wrecks - soon to be undergoing restoration to airworthy condition - at least 3 are scheduled to be built and wrecks plus parts are currently present in this album plus all the other stuff including P39, P40, P38, A20 < L5 , Kingfisher etc
There is also an album taken today of the arrival of A20 Big Nig - a very famous A20 which is to be restored to airworthy condition
Regards
John P
Link http://community.webshots.com/user/setter126007
To keep you happy with a few recovered A20 snaps of the Wangarratta wrecks - soon to be undergoing restoration to airworthy condition - at least 3 are scheduled to be built and wrecks plus parts are currently present in this album plus all the other stuff including P39, P40, P38, A20 < L5 , Kingfisher etc
There is also an album taken today of the arrival of A20 Big Nig - a very famous A20 which is to be restored to airworthy condition
Regards
John P
Link http://community.webshots.com/user/setter126007