warbird2 wrote:
Fouga23 wrote:
First Chuckie loses her pathfinder heritage and becomes just another plain G, and now this
Why not just touch up the paint and restore it as the unique time capsule it is? I'm horrified to hear it will become just another boring American paint job. it's a crime against history IMHO.
I would strongly advise you to read this book before you do anything:
http://www.amazon.com/Corsair-KD431-Tim ... 075094305XDidn't you read what he said? The F-86 is going back to the ORIGINAL American markings IT ACTUALLY had at Foster AFB. It is your opinion if they are boring or not but I'm sure if you send them a large donation they will leave the airplane in th FAB colors to make you happy. Why does it need to be in FAB markings rather than American markings.
I read that book you mention about the FAA Corsair. It looks like crap, as far as paint jobs go, because it is not complete. Either way, that is a time capsul Corsair because of the condition of it. The F-86 is already missing the engine and is far from a time capsual. Not to mention that if the F-86 was ever to fly again, it would loose a lot of its FAB heritage in the process.
By the way, you need to gripe at another museum on the east coast if you want to complain about the B-17. That is not the fault of these people.
OK guys, let's keep it civil. Agree to disagree, but please tone it down a bit. I can clearly see both sides of the argument. Let me see if I can present both sides in a fair and equitable way.
Fouga23 likes the FAB livery because it's something different, and I'm sure other WIXers feel that way, too. I agree; the FAB scheme on our Sabre is one of a kind. As Fouga 23 correctly points out, most of the surviving Sabres wear some kind of USAF livery. That includes some that never served with USAF and weren't even "Made in USA" (that bugs me, by the way). The FAB livery is historically significant because FAB was the very last air arm in the world to operate the F-86 as a front-line fighter, with the last ones being retired in 1994. That's a neat little piece of information, for sure, but it only has real meaning to aviation historians and "warbird geeks".
On the other hand, we must take into account who our intended audience is. Although this may sound like a "sellout" on our part, the people whom we must please are the nice folks who come to our museum and pay money to see our cool airplanes. The majority of our guests are not pilots or crew, nor are they aviation historians (professional, amateur, or wanna-be). They're average citizens who have at least a passing interest in airplanes and history. A lot of them visit us simply because their kids like planes. Most of our guests are also local people -- Texans -- whether by birth or by choice. Texans will be more impressed by seeing the Sabre restored in the brightly-colored and correct USAF livery from her service in Texas than they would be if she wore the dull, drab markings of the air arm of a third-world country that they probably couldn't even find on a map. That's right, gang, not everyone knows where Bolivia is. Think I'm exagerating? Last summer, I had a high school student ask me if Bolivia was a country. I laughed, but when I looked at his face, I could tell that he was serious. Another time, I had an adult woman, probably in her mid to late 30s, ask me if Bolivia was in Africa. At least she knew it was a country. (Side note -- let's not get into a discussion on the deterioration of our educational system, okay?).
Another factor is the cost. No matter how we refinish the Sabre, we will have to strip her to bare metal first. We have sheet metal repairs to perform (damaged during shipment to Texas from Bolivia), and we need to check for corrosion and hidden damage. It will cost a LOT less to buff the skin and apply USAF markings than it would to paint the entire airplane in the FAB three-tone camo scheme. We are a small museum with a very small budget, and we must make every dollar count. That's really a shame, but it's our way of life.
I hope I've enlightened everyone. Fouga23, I appreciate your concern and value your opinion. And Warbird2 makes a good point as well. If someone comes forward with a large donation, we'll refinish the Sabre any way they want!
Warbird2 makes another good point. It was the decision of the B-17's new owner to restore the airplane in a more mainstream way. That decision was not made by VFM. But don't worry, Fouga23. . . good things are happening! The cargo door is gone and has being replaced by a correct right waist gun installation. She's getting a chin turret (yes, all PFF ships had them, though some were removed in the field by the crews late in the war). Corroded metal is being replaced. The radio compartment is going to get some much-needed attention. I guess the only non-PFF thing that's happening is the installation of a ball turret. On that subject, Jerry Yagen told me personally that he is looking into setting up the airplane so that the ball turret can be swapped for a Mickey radar setup. I've thought about it, and it's very feasible, especially for a man like Jerry who has the funds to be creative like that. I look at it like this: after years of the VFM crew struggling to keep her airworthy and being unable to afford to do any real historical restoration on her, it's very gratifying to see the care she's receiving.
OK. Time for me to get down off my soap box. I appreciate everyone's inputs and lively discussion (but let's keep it friendly!).
Cheers,
Dean K5DH
Vintage Flying Museum
Crew chief, F-86F 52-4689
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Indeed, more then half the people who visit wouldn't even know where Bolivia is on the map! I still think it's a shame since its USAF service was very short compared to her Bolivian service. It is very historical significant as it is now. But again, I understand your reasons for wanting to restore it as a Texan Sabre. I just hope the paint scheme is documented before it's stripped. Any chance of posting some pics of the logo's, stencils, serials?
