Warbird Information Exchange

I just finished reading Linc Alexanders "Fire Bomber Into Hell". It was an enjoyable read about a pilot's 37 year career in Fire Bombing. The book got me thinking: Have we seen the last of the military (i.e. combat type) conversions? It seems like there are a number of retired military types that would make very good air tanker conversions. The S-3 Viking would seem to be a good candidate for a tanker conversion , but I think you could make a good case for the A-6 Intruder or even the A-10 Warthog (of course, I'd love to see an A-4 with a retardant tank). Is any of this possible? Or, has the government become so paranoid about putting military gear in civilian hands that even a "good" application for these planes, such as Fire Bombing, is completely off the table?

If you are interested in the technical end of airtankers, try and find a copy of his other book, I think it is called, AIR ATTACK ON FOREST FIRES. I have a copy, but have not been able to find another. You might have better luck. In that book there is a pic of a Lancaster that was started to be converted to an airtanker, but not much of the history of any of the planes.
There was a company that tried to convert A-10 to air tankers, nicknaming them FireHogs. I think the situation in Iraq and Afghanistan stopped that since they are in use over there and I don't think the military would release any parts or complete aircraft to a civil, or any other government entity.
I also just finished reading this book. Interesting photo of N17W belly landed. It also sounds like he had a LOT of fun in the F7F!

Sorry to be a smarta$$ ,but I was thinking that maybe we need to convert B-52's into Fire bombers.I know it wont happen but I couldnt resist. sorry.

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Aero Union looked at the feasibility of an A-10 tanker conversion - we had some cool artwork showing an A-10 tanker with a large external centerline tank hanging up in our shop when I worked there, but IIRC there was an issue with the wake off that tank causing problems with turbofans operating properly.

There is this too..
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._Forest_Service_airtanker_scandal

Dewayne

I was going to pipe in on that as well, but you beat me to it. (I must've been distracted by the playground fight going on over in the Re-inactor's thread).

My thought was that after this scandal went down the military would never be involved in ANY kind of surplus aicraft-for-airtanker deal ever again.

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Offer me solutions, offer me alternatives, and I decline......

Yes,
Quite a mess. The end of T&G, too.
Chris...

You would think that P 3 Orions would be a good choice for tanker conversions. I also think the Japanese Shin Meiwa flying boat would be a good candidate too. I suppose that Japanese prohibitions on exporting military equipment would keep that from happening. New model C-130s would be a candidate too and since there is a civil version of that aircraft that might be a viable option if the Forest Service or a state had the money. I wonder about the turbo prop Convairs? 580? would they be a candidate?

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"I can't understand it, I cut it twice and it's still too short!" Robert F. Dupre' 1923-2010 Go With God.

I know way back in the day I flew stripped-out P-3A airframes that had the upgraded T-56 in them and let me tell you...they were a real powerhouse. I'm sure that Aero Union LOVES those P-3's and wishes they could have more. I also remember wandering around the back lot at Hawkins & Powers about 20 years ago and they had at least two ex-Spanish P-3's there for possible conversion.

I saw a lot of the Shin Meiwa PS-1's flying around out of Iwakuni and Atsugi. Most awkward looking and sounding planes you'll ever find. But they had really good STOL/flying characteristics, so I'm sure a conversion like that would be great for coming in slow over the target and getting precise drops.

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Offer me solutions, offer me alternatives, and I decline......

Conair in Canada is the leading operator of Convair 580 Tankers, so they're definitely a prime candidate. Unfortunately, the "new" C-130s being retired are timed out and require new wing boxes (very expensive) if they're to continue flying (same problem as what retired the C-130A's after two folded up inflight), so you won't be seeing any even if you could. As it is, the civilian L.100's out there are now starting to re-wing because of the problem as well.

I doubt you'll see any "heavy" turboprops get converted because there just aren't any out there for the price needed for them to be able to make the conversion worth the cost. The P-3C's going to the boneyard now are well over their life limit and the rest are rapidly approaching them, so it'll be unlikely to see any of them either. The few L.188's that have been converted are about all that's left of the L.188's too.

I mentioned that on this forum a ways back. Think of the amount of retardant a stripped down B-52H could dump. You could even put tanks in place of the external racks.
(I wasn't or am not trying to be a smart*** but, I couldn't resist mentioning the notion.Silly as it was).

The Convair 580 air tanker conversion was the last project I worked on at Aero Union. It is a nice air tanker - turboprop power, constant flow tank, and an airframe that does not require as much structural maintenance as the P-3/L-188. I traveled to British Columbia a few times to work on the prototypes and the Conair facilities were impressive and the folks were a good bunch to work with. Conair owns the data package for the aircraft conversion and the tank manufacturing and I heard they own half of Aero Union now too. Would not be surprised if the future is CV-580 air tankers in the US. I think I read Conair is also operating CV-580's on fires in Australia.

http://www.conair.ca/aircraft

Video from one of my trips to Conair to work on the drop system

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CL3166QfaY0

Dewayne

could retired c-130's be good?

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" I am a nobody in aviation, but somebody to my family."

Frank, if you read the other postings in the other thread that is linked on here you'll see that most, if not all of the C-130's that would be available, have all entered the end of their service life and would need serious wing-box replacement/work in order to be utilized--a very expensive proposition. The alternative would be a repeat of the Herk that had it's wings fold up right in front of the camera's a few years back.....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4bDNCac2N1o

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Offer me solutions, offer me alternatives, and I decline......

yeah i remember that. That poor crew. If they were to use c-130s, could they cut the payload in half for saftey?

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" I am a nobody in aviation, but somebody to my family."

Deleted original message, 'cause something strange happened. Why does "Hell" (with the 2 l's) get turned into 'heck'? I was suggesting if he was going to quote a title, why not qoute it correctly, & lo & behold, mine got turned into 'heck' also! What the heck gives?