Pros / Cons, and opinions on Re-enactors

Taigh Ramey · **Posted:** Thu Jan 20, 2011 12:36 am

I gotta say that the Arizona Ground Crew Living History folks are the most amazing group of guys I have ever had the honor of working with. They are wonderful and truly bring history alive in my book. Most of them are ex military or are still in the service and they really do things right. They spend countless hours researching and learning as much as they can to make things more authentic and they are doing a masterful job. From my research and from talking to WWII folks I think these guys really hit it on the head. They do not portray the by the regulation book kind of folks but they come across as what it would have been like in the real world. Most of this comes from their own military experiences which to me makes them all the more authentic.

When we do the Bomber Camp everyone is in period attire. I feel very uncomfortable wearing military uniforms especially with any rank as I did not earn it. I worship the folks from our greatest generation and I honor the veterans by doing the activities we do but I just don't feel it is right for me to wear the rank when I never earned it. I am not saying it isn't right for others to do this is simply my personal feeling.

When we are doing the camp I would like to blend in but at 6 foot 4 and 300 pounds I also don't look anything close to the folks from the day. I might be able to get away with imitating a factory tech rep or something similar so I can fit in without messing up the authenticity.

My hat is off to the guys who bring this history alive especially to the best group of guys out there from Arizona. To me these authentic living history folks add immeasurably to any air show or aircraft display. At first we had the basic aircraft that was externally restored. With time more authentic restorations appear which steps up the competition and we see the aircraft becoming more complete with all of the equipment. Then the details come into play and the restorations become closer and closer to portraying a specific time in an aircraft's history. Bringing the living history folks into play with these wonderful aircraft seems to recreate a moment in time that people enjoy and appreciate. Not only the veterans that were there but their kids, grand kids and great grand kids all seem to appreciate the effort put in by the living history individuals and groups. I have seen them at many air shows and I have never heard anything but praise for their efforts. I can't see anything negative about what they bring to an air show or event. For the most part they police themselves and strive for authenticity and spend amazing amounts of time making sure it is correct. They are there to talk to the people to help educate them about this important time in our history.

Well done guys and thanks for your efforts.

warbird1 · **Joined:** Fri Sep 21, 2007 6:25 pm **Posts:** 2760

Taigh Ramey wrote:

When we are doing the camp I would like to blend in but at 6 foot 4 and 300 pounds I also don't look anything close to the folks from the day. I might be able to get away with imitating a factory tech rep or something similar so I can fit in without messing up the authenticity.

Wow, Taigh, you're a giant!

The ride Nazi says, "No P-38 ride for you!"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J02RdkvI ... re=related

Taigh Ramey · **Posted:** Thu Jan 20, 2011 1:33 am

warbird1 wrote:

Wow, Taigh, you're a giant!

I should have said 300 pounds of grace and beauty!

Incidentally I do fit nicely in the cockpit of a P-38, with room to spare. Now i just have to find an owner that is willing to let me fly one!

cco23i · **Posted:** Thu Jan 20, 2011 1:37 am

Thanks Taigh, and at least you walk normally, not like me! :lol:

I wonder if that resteraunt ever recovered from me "walking out" that day? :lol:

Scott

Mudge · **Posted:** Thu Jan 20, 2011 12:06 pm

Taigh Ramey wrote:

warbird1 wrote:

Wow, Taigh, you're a giant!

I should have said 300 pounds of grace and beauty!

Incidentally I do fit nicely in the cockpit of a P-38, with room to spare. Now i just have to find an owner that is willing to let me fly one!

Taigh...BTDT, in the PoF P-38. Steve Hinton did, in fact, tell me he'd let me fly it, though. All I had to do was get all the proper qualifications. Which, needless to say, would take about 5 years and a couple of hundred thousand dollars.

Mudge the unqualified :roll:

(Don't you mean 250 pounds of grace and beauty with 50 pounds of protective covering? :wink:

)

Shay · **Posted:** Thu Jan 20, 2011 12:36 pm

If you peruse thru the http://www.ddayohio.us website you'll see several pages concerning authenticity, proper gear and use, safety as well as conduct.

http://www.ddayohio.us/Rulesandregs.htm

http://www.ddayohio.us/Reenactor%20Infos.htm

My belief is if you're gonna do it then do it right for the right historical reason. No jokers wanting to be something they're not, living out a fantasy. In all regards i would think that once you don the uniform you're in character 100% until you remove it. Anyone can buy a uniform, not everyone can earn one. I'll say what I tell my daughter who is in AFJROTC; "Respect the uniform and those who died wearing it", "Always wear it properly according to regulation". Personally I don't think there is a particular need for reenactors to wear ribbons and medals. As these are also awards earned and if your main focus is reeacting combat events there is no need to as no one was wearing them while storming the beach. No one wants to see a PFC with a rainbow going over his left shoulder.

I would think at Reenactor meetings the main topics of discussion would be 100% Authenticty. Because if it's not or if it's less than 100% then whats the point?

I think Reenacting has it's place in today's world and its that of education and remembrance. If any member of a reenactment group isn't humbled before these key points, as a Veteran I would kindly ask them to give it up.

Shay
____________
Semper Fortis

Pogmusic · **Posted:** Thu Jan 20, 2011 2:21 pm

My point about Germans v Nazis was Tongue in cheek. Look at the WW2 US propaganda. Rarely was it that we were fighting the Germans, it was all about the Nazis. Roosevelt made a conscious decision to push that as there was a large percentage of the population who were of Germanic origin and he was fearful, initially, of their reaction to the US entry into WWII. We fought the J a p s though. As to the issue about party affiliation, that was applied to the officer corps of the Wehrmacht as late as 1938. Once again, tongue in cheek. Geeeeze.

cco23i · **Posted:** Thu Jan 20, 2011 2:37 pm

Pog,
I have a 1944 manual and it has the "Japanese" soldier. Boy you want to talk about racist! I almost flipped! I will scan and post for you all to see the difference between a Chinese man and a Japanese man.

Scott

Mudge · **Posted:** Thu Jan 20, 2011 2:42 pm

Shay wrote:

If you peruse thru the http://www.ddayohio.us website you'll see several pages concerning authenticity, proper gear and use, safety as well as conduct.

http://www.ddayohio.us/Rulesandregs.htm

http://www.ddayohio.us/Reenactor%20Infos.htm

My belief is if you're gonna do it then do it right for the right historical reason. No jokers wanting to be something they're not, living out a fantasy.In all regards i would think that once you don the uniform you're in character 100% until you remove it. Anyone can buy a uniform, not everyone can earn one. I'll say what I tell my daughter who is in AFJROTC; "Respect the uniform and those who died wearing it", "Always wear it properly according to regulation". Personally I don't think there is a particular need for reenactors to wear ribbons and medals. As these are also awards earned and if your main focus is reeacting combat events there is no need to as no one was wearing them while storming the beach. No one wants to see a PFC with a rainbow going over his left shoulder.

I would think at Reenactor meetings the main topics of discussion would be 100% Authenticty. Because if it's not or if it's less than 100% then whats the point?

I think Reenacting has it's place in today's world and its that of education and remembrance. If any member of a reenactment group isn't humbled before these key points, as a Veteran I would kindly ask them to give it up.

Shay
____________
Semper Fortis

But isn't that what all reenactors are doing? After all, I haven't seen but a handful of "The Greatest Generation" in their old uniforms.
Those of us who are reenacting are, IMHO, honoring those of that generation.
And I kind of agree with your point about ribbons and awards. Obviously, there's no place for ribbons and awards on a combat uniform. I don't think any reenactor would consider wearing them in that context.
However, when a reenactor is in a "Class A" uniform, I think the "fruit salad" is totally appropriate. There are awards that I don't think should be worn by any reenactor, under any circumstances. Those are the awards for "above and beyond". Mrs. Mudge and I both wear ribbons on our Class As. We are portraying characters that could have earned these awards and will describe the actions our, ficticious, characters did to earn them. Our "experiences" are historically accurate and entirely plausible.
Our motto is, "If you're going to portray a character, portray the entire character."

At last years MAAM, a lady at one of the tables in the main hangar asked Mrs. Mudge about her uniform. (Mrs. Mudge portrays a Navy flight nurse with the rank of Commander.) Mrs Mudge related her character's "experiences" to the lady. Part of which is her flying the wounded from Iwo Jima to Guam. The lady said that her husband had been one of the wounded Marines that was flown from Iwo to Guam and had nothing but praise for those nurses. I took the Flight Nurse wings (authentic) off Mrs. Mudge's uniform and gave them to the lady. She cried. That, IMHO, is what reenacting is about.

Mudge the reenactor

Pogmusic · **Posted:** Thu Jan 20, 2011 3:10 pm

cco23i,
I sincerely hope you were not labeling me as a racist! Look up the definition of racist. If you read my post, you will see that I was referring to PROPAGANDA - not manuals. The mentality of that time... look at the movies, look at the posters. I did not infer any racists commentary -- just commenting on the attitude of the time.

Obergrafeter · **Posted:** Thu Jan 20, 2011 3:19 pm

Mudge, hopefully all re enactors will have the class that you have!

warbird1 · **Joined:** Fri Sep 21, 2007 6:25 pm **Posts:** 2760

Pogmusic wrote:

We fought the J a p s though. As to the issue about party affiliation, that was applied to the officer corps of the Wehrmacht as late as 1938. Once again, tongue in cheek. Geeeeze.

FWIW, there is a WIX member here who is married to a Japanese lady who takes great offense to the use of that word. He perceives that word to be a pejorative and inflammatory and created an uprorar on this forum within the last 2 years because of another member's use of it.

Just thought you guys/gals should know that before people go around slinging it around casually on the forum and getting this thread locked.

-Some friendly advice from warbird1, the conflict resolution facilitator!

Pogmusic · **Posted:** Thu Jan 20, 2011 4:10 pm

Well, then I guess we have to rewrite historical context then don't we? I'm sorry if it offends your friends wife. I don't use the phrase except when used in historical context.

I have several family members, one uncle who died at Pearl Harbor, and friends who fought in the Japanese co-prosperity theater, who are greatly offended at having lost their youth and friends to the Japanese. What about the Filipino's who lived & died under their rule for years. What about the Koreans who serviced the Japanese? What about the Chinese for Gods sake? What about the Allied POWs forced to serve as slave labor, chemical and biological experiments and also starved to death -- nearly as bad as the German death camps. I'm sure that they're offended by the Japanese and what they did.

cco23i · **Posted:** Thu Jan 20, 2011 4:48 pm

Pogmusic wrote:

cco23i,
I sincerely hope you were not labeling me as a racist! Look up the definition of racist. If you read my post, you will see that I was referring to PROPAGANDA - not manuals. The mentality of that time... look at the movies, look at the posters. I did not infer any racists commentary -- just commenting on the attitude of the time.

Oh heck no! Just "filling ya' in. Just thought it was funny as I am dilligently studying my manual and come across it. I almost fell over. :shock:

Scott

cco23i · **Posted:** Thu Jan 20, 2011 5:42 pm

Here Pog is what I was talking about.

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b12/c ... panese.jpg

I will post the link BUT the pic is VERY racist towards the Japanese so remember this was published in 1944.

Scott

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