Warbird Information Exchange

Hi to all,

After a search of several years I finally managed to buy an instrument for my cockpit project. But unfortunately during these years the situation concern instruments with radium paint became very bad in my country ( the Netherlands) , I am not allow to have any instrument that contains radium paint. I bought the instrument in the USA and now I need a workshop/company that is willing to remove the dial-plate and pointers before they send it to me in the Netherlands. Is there anyone who know of a workshop who can do that?

Best regards,

Mathieu.

Depends on what instrument it is. Not all have radium paint. Do you have a picture? What aircraft is it for? Changing the dial will cost you 10 times more then the instrument is worth! I live in Belgium. My advice: send it anyway and pretend you didn't know!

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Magister Aviation
It's all in my book

And not allowed? Radium was used on many things in the past, including watches. If you can't have a single instrument, I guess a lot of antiques would be illegal! As long as the glass isn't cracked, the radiation should not be dangerous. It's only when the glass breaks and you inhale the dust.

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Magister Aviation
It's all in my book

I guess the trick would be 'don't lick the dial' you can buy a glow in the dark hobby paint @ an arts and crafts store that is water based and glows really well, I used it to 'pinstripe' flames on my 3/4 motorcycle helmet and it's been working for nearly 11 years.
And wear your vintage 1957 BULOVA glow in the dark watch when you go to talk to customs or whomever just to tug on their leg

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Don't make me go get my flying monkeys-

Hi,

Thanks for the replies! Unfortunately, the radium problem is a nasty one in my country. Just have a look at this threat: http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/showthread.php?t=19924 Was this case discused on this forum?
The gauge I bought is a 3 in 1 gauge and was made by Kollsman, I have several more instruments made by Kollsman and so far all had radium paint . So, I am not going to take any risk by sending the gauge by post to my home, so any advice from the people in the states are welcome!

Bets regards,

Mathieu.
www.fokker-g1.nl

Send them to me and I'll dispose of them properly for you...

P.S. We had a case in the US where an entire warehouse of instruments (used as core instruments for overhaul) were all destroyed- even though they had been legally sold to civilians by the US government. Also, a prominent instrument shop in California had to replace all the wallboard in their overhaul facility because 40 years of instrument repair had contaminated the walls. They no longer accept radium instruments for overhaul.

Or pick up a copy of 'STREET RODDER' magazine and plow through the ads for companies who re pop classic car instrument faces for high end hot rods. Or a local screen printer shop might be closer and cheaper on a 'one time' basis. Also you might check with a local area classic auto restorers shop because it can't be a high survival rate for 75 year old PACKARD speedometers in original condition either. Maybe they can suggest someone who can work from a really good, clear photocopy.

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Don't make me go get my flying monkeys-

I would entice you to read the following thread on the keypublishing forum...

http://forum.keypublishing.com/showthread.php?t=97884

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rreis

If you want pictures, see rreis@flickr

While they are most dangerous with damaged glass, they still radiate even it intact. I would NOT have one sitting where I am spending much time. Rememer the dose is related to the distance and time exposed. If you have one at your office 2-3 feet from you and you spend 8-12 hours a day there you are soaking up a small dose. Enough to be carcinogenic, I'm not sure. I took some readings on mine. They sit high on a shelf well away from things ( gotta love the innverse square rule. I have the readings somewhere and could calcualte a dose.

They just send them to an instrument shop willing to deal with them I suspect. I don't think anyone in Chino is removing any radium. Most instrument shops are set up to re-screen dials and put new markings on.

Hello Mathieu,
Keystone instruments in Lockhaven, Pennsylvania will have the radium removed from your instrument and completely rebuild it to airworthy condition if required. I spoke with them about two weeks ago and got a quote of $150.00 US per instrument to have the radium removed. There website is listed below.
http://www.keystoneinstruments.com/gauges.htm
Regards,
Eric

Met the guy involed in that a while back, not a happy camper over the entire ordeal.

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Those who possess real knowledge are rare.

Those who can set that knowledge into motion in the physical world are rarer still.

The few who possess real knowledge and can set it into motion of their own hands are the rarest of all.

Hi,

Thanks for your replies and suggestions! Fitting new dial-plates is no problem for me, I've don several instruments. But since the Dutchman who lost his entire collection I became scare to use the postman to get instruments send to my country.

@bdk, thanks for the offer, I'll send you a pm
@Eric, thanks for the link, I'll contact them to see what the possibilities are.

This week there was some other news about radiation risk, the MoD had donated several jet engines to schools and museums. Now they discovered that these engines contain material that are radio active and all engines have to be returned to the MoD. Another example are the verhicles of the "Keep the rolling" several owners lost speedometers, they were confiscated becuase contained radium paint

The photos show 2 example of new dial-plates which I made myself
Best regards,

Mathieu.

We sent 2 Tiger Moth compasses (P-type) across the Canada/US border to Lockhaven, and they were flagged as radioactive at some shipping nexus in NJ. The compasses were marked for destruction, but fortunately Keystone went to the trouble of driving 2+ hours each way to go rescue them -- which wasn't easy even when they got there. (Then they had them for 8 months rebuilding them, but that's another story....)

Obviously we're not shipping anything with radium across a border again.

Radium also gets you into trouble flying into the USA. At St. Clair County (Mich.) airport, during Oshkosh week, there is a steady flow of arrivals all planning to clear Customs. Many of the vintage or warbird aircraft set off the geiger counter. Then you can expect delays. You'd think commonsense would prevail, and I suppose it eventually does (I haven't heard of a Tiger Moth actually being impounded as a WMD) but your x-country plan needs to allow for the delay.

When I arrived there in 2009 in the P-40, the CWH Lysander had been sitting on the ramp for over 4 hours waiting for some kind of clearance. Ol' Rick R was spitting-mad.




We set it off too, but it only took us an hour in the P-40 after that. Thanks, Rick!

Dave

This whole thing made me remember an incident from years ago, and apparently it still isn't resolved. The MoF has (had?) an IM-99 BOMARC they were going to display. but some Duddly Doright discovered that the airframe had mildly radioactive skins (it was built as a disposable anti aircraft intercept missle after all) and went into panic overdrive 'get under the bed! Don't look directly at it, you'll turn to stone!, small children and animals will be turned into 50 tall ants'. Typical over zelous knee jerking by some midd-ish level public servant even though the MoF was going to display it on the outside of the building and many many feet up the side (the prevailing winds @ KBFI blow along the long runway and over the grass between the runways where no one except airfield maintenance and grounds keepers are allowed). When last I saw it years ago, it was laying in the grass well away from the buildings @ the restoration facility @ KPAE.
I guess you never know, someone might shinny up the outside of the building and spend days licking the skins.

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Don't make me go get my flying monkeys-