Warbird Information Exchange

DISCLAIMER: The views expressed on this site are the responsibility of the poster and do not reflect the views of the management.
It is currently Sat May 10, 2025 12:29 pm

All times are UTC - 5 hours


Classic Wings Magazine WWII Naval Aviation Research Pacific Luftwaffe Resource Center
When Hollywood Ruled The Skies - Volumes 1 through 4 by Bruce Oriss


Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 32 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Sat Oct 02, 2010 9:23 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 25, 2008 2:18 pm
Posts: 743
Location: OHIO
This is a little story my wife Susan wrote to a number of our aviation friends about a meeting that happened just a week ago.
Image

Sometimes things happen in life that, at first glance, start out “normal” and you then realize, how truly special they are!

Image

We had the good fortune, through friends, to meet "Lil Herbie" -- or Herb Stachler who, at 92 years old, looks and acts more like someone in his 70's! We met at our hangar as Sunday was the day we would take Herbie for rides in the Wacos. We planned to take him for a ride in Andy's cabin as it is much easier to get in and out.

Image

We spent probably an hour before listening to stories Herbie was telling us that are nothing short of remarkable. Herbie flew P47's in the 366th Fighter Group, 391st Fighter Squadron.. He spoke very fondly of the P47 -- despite its penchant for guzzling fuel (100 gals per hour in normal cruise) with only 400 gallons on board. He spoke of how their limited fuel range allowed them to escort the "heavies" (B17's) out over the English Channel and in to France before having to turn back. It was chilling to hear him tell how they would radio the pilots in the B17's that they were starting to get low on fuel and needed to turn back. The B17 pilots would always ask -- "Stay just a little longer please?" as everyone saw the swarm of German fighter planes waiting up at higher altitude a little further along. But eventually, Herbie and his squadron mates could wait no longer, low on fuel they had to turn back. He said you could hear the radios light up with the B17's chattering about the German Fighters beginning their runs. There was a chill in his voice and a few cracks as he told this story. "There were so many losses; those boys really took a beating." Herbie soon turned the conversation to a bit more light-hearted topics about the P47.
Image

He told of a time when he was flying recon and relaying messages over the English Channel and was up at about 30K feet when he thought, "Let's see how fast I can get this thing going..." He did a split S and nosed over the P47 and reached over 600 mph! He said fought like hell to pull it out of the dive, with a mental note not to do that again.
Image

His squadron was flying cover over the beach at D-Day +2 and he was "Tail End Charlie". “I was flying along at the back and looking in amazement at all the ships in the Channel, when I heard this ‘clink, clink, CLINK!” Sure enough -- just about the time he heard the squadron leader say, "Break away - you've got a 'Gerry' on your tail!", he said the cockpit was filled with bits of shrapnel from a 20mm shell that had burst into the cockpit. Covered in fluid, Herbie said, "I knew I wasn't hit because I didn't hurt, but I was sitting on top of the fuel tank and I reached down got some on my fingers to smell to make sure it wasn't gas!" Luckily, (maybe) it was hydraulic fluid. He had just heard that the allies had captured an airfield and he headed that direction, unsure whether they "really" had captured the field or if it could even be used. Heck, he wasn't even sure he was landing at the correct field, but without flaps or brakes, and a shot up plane he needed to land somewhere, now! He managed to get her down and stopped before running off the end of the runway. The maintenance crews quickly replaced the engine on his ship, and Herbie took her up to do “slow time” as he called it when at about 10K feet, the engine quit.
Image

“It finally started running again after about losing 5000ft and I landed. They didn’t have time to trouble shoot so they just yanked that engine off and put another one on!” Herbie told meeting some of the Glider pilots that managed to survive the invasion. “They told me they were never getting in another airplane without an engine!” Herbie gave rides to the guys in his ship – by putting them in the seat and sitting on top of them! But time came for him to get back to the action so he took off from that little air strip and headed back to his squadron. Although not completely verified, he said, "Story is I was the first Allied Plane to land in France and fly back out after the invasion began."

Image

We could have sat and listened to Herbie's stories for hours, but the primary objective of our mission was to give him a ride in the Wacos. Herbie did not fly after the war. He said he flew a little bit when people gave him rides, but, like a lot of WWII veterans, he got busy with working and raising his family (10 children!) So a ride in the Waco was a big excitement for him.

He had no trouble at all getting up on the wing of the Cabin and he and Andy took off with me in the RNF on their tail. We joined up and flew a formation pass down the runway for Herbie. Andy said he was laughing and enjoying the ride immensely. Andy took him over UD's Welcome Stadium. Herbie had been there the night before as a friend of his just turned 90 and they honored his friend at the football game as a former alumnus. They flew over Carillon Park and then back to the airport. I had landed before Andy and kept the RNF running juuuust in case Herbie wanted to go for a ride. He had spoken so fondly of his Stearman training in Primary Flight school at the start of the war I wanted to give him every opportunity to go for a ride.

Andy asked him before he even got out of the Cabin, "You want to go for a ride in the RNF?" To which Herbie responded, "Heck yes!" Andy and our friend Mike went off to see if they could find a box for Herbie to stand on to help him on the wing, but they looked over and Herbie was already about to climb on the wing -- so they rushed back over to help him in but he was halfway up the wing and surely didn’t need any help from us! We got him buckled in and despite the chill in the air and the wind sitting behind the spinning prop -- he was ready to go!
We taxied out and I did my pre-flight checks and said, "Are you ready Herbie?" And he came back over the intercom -- "Oh YES! Let's go!" I pushed the throttle forward and the Warner kicked to life and we were off in about 200 feet. We came back around and made a pass down the runway and Herbie was waving at everyone on the ground. After we pulled back up to altitude, I just sat and listened to Herbie "oooh and ahhh" and watched him take pictures as we flew over the surrounding area. I could have stayed up there all day with him, but I've been up front in my plane on a cool day and I didn't want him to get chilled to the bone. So we came back around and set up for landing.... the wind was rather squirrely -- but I slipped the plane in and thankfully pulled off a smooth landing. As we taxied back, Herbie said, "Oh I can't thank you enough for this! I haven't been up in an open cockpit biplane since my primary training in 1943!" I had tears in my eyes as I told him, "Herbie, it was my honor and such a privilege to take you for a ride and you can be my co-pilot anytime!" As I pulled up to the hangar and shut the engine down, Andy asked him, "So how'd she do?" Herbie replied, "She did a great job!" Andy asked him if I was ready for a P47 and we all laughed when he said, "In time!" Needless to say -- it was also Herbie's first time riding with a female pilot! I'm sooo lucky!!
Image
Getting in the front cockpit of the RNF can be awkward -- getting out even more so -- but Herbie with his short stature (he had to stand on his tiptoes to make the height requirements to fly!) and being so nimble -- he had no troubles at all getting out of the RNF. As soon as I got out, he came up and gave me a big hug saying again how much he loved being out in the air again in an airplane. We took lots of pictures and in front of the planes and the hangar for him to share with his buddies. Needless to say, this is a flight I will never forget. We invited Herbie to come back on Tuesday night (Airport night!) to meet more of our friends and tell more stories!

Image

Image

Herbie arrived about 6 pm and our usual Airport Night group of 17 people were there waiting to meet Herb Stachler! Just about the time Herbie arrived, brother Pete Heins arrived with the CRG! Herb was really amazed by that Waco!
It was to be a special night because Herbie brought his dress uniform, leather flying jacket, helmet, goggles and gloves for us all to see! Herbie graciously answered all our questions about flying the P47 and the exciting (heck, downright scary) things he experienced. He recounted stories about the Battle of the Bulge and the German Tiger tanks which were darn near impossible to stop.

Image

Herbie’s flight jacket was amazing.
Image

Image

Image

Image

One of the guys in his squadron painted his P47 on the back and he had the markings for all the fighter sweeps, and bomb runs he had made along with markings for the tanks, trucks, and planes he had taken out. There was even what looked like a barn! Herbie told us how he and another pilot had been sent in on a mission to destroy an ammo depot. “I guess we did a pretty good job because we got the Distinguished Flying Cross for that mission!” Everyone around the table was slack-jawed in amazement. Herbie then reached inside his leather jacket and pulled out an envelope containing about four or five passport photos. “We carried these in case we were shot down and were lucky enough to picked up by the Underground, then they could make passports for us to help get us out of enemy territory.” He also had a little tin containing some of the shrapnel from that 20mm shell that invaded his cockpit and his little button compass that pilots would sew on their coats.
Image

Image

Image

Image

Another amazing award Herbie had decorating his dress uniform is the Croix de guerre which may either be bestowed as a unit award or to individuals who distinguish themselves by acts of heroism involving combat with enemy forces. For the unit decoration of the Croix de Guerre, a fourragère or aiguillette is awarded which is suspended from the shoulder of an individual's uniform. Herbie’s unit was presented this award by the Belgians for their acts during the Battle of the Bulge. It was truly breath-taking to be sitting there listening and seeing all this history. Thankfully, our friends John and Linda LeBarre had set up their video camera and about an hour and a half of the conversation is recorded.

Image

Image

Image
Our friend Brad had been busily cooking up a fabulous grilled dinner and we all sat down and enjoyed a great meal with all the Wacos as a backdrop. Herbie has said he will come back to visit and fly with us again. How lucky are we?

Image

_________________
President National Waco Club
Curator for the Waco Historical Society Air Museum
Writer for VINTAGE AIRPLANE, SKYWAYS, BARNSTORMERS.COM EFLYER


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Oct 02, 2010 10:09 am 
Offline
3000+ Post Club
3000+ Post Club
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 28, 2006 12:56 pm
Posts: 3442
Location: North of Texas, South of Kansas
That's what it's all about.

Thank you for sharing it with us.
Scott


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Oct 02, 2010 1:01 pm 
Offline
3000+ Post Club
3000+ Post Club
User avatar

Joined: Sun Nov 07, 2004 2:02 am
Posts: 4695
Location: Yucca Valley, CA
Thanks for sharing the story with us! Another piece of history saved. Looks like there were at least two Lil' Herbies, the NMF one being 42-26278. Were there any photos that showed the serial of the OD one?

_________________
Image
All right, Mister Dorfmann, start pullin'!
Pilot: "Flap switch works hard in down position."
Mechanic: "Flap switch checked OK. Pilot needs more P.T." - Flight report, TB-17G 42-102875 (Hobbs AAF)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Oct 02, 2010 1:59 pm 
Offline
2000+ Post Club
2000+ Post Club
User avatar

Joined: Sat Oct 04, 2008 6:57 pm
Posts: 2716
Location: St Petersburg FL, USA
Very cool! Thanks so much for sharing the story and the pics.

_________________
Image
Aviation Illustration Website
http://shepartstudio.com/illustration/


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Oct 02, 2010 2:09 pm 
Offline
Long Time Member
Long Time Member

Joined: Sat Dec 22, 2007 12:36 am
Posts: 7961
Location: Mt. Vernon, WA.
Thanks indeed for posting that, it's somtimes amazing what happens when a friend says 'hey, I know a guy you should meet'. Great story and glad to see he's agile @ his age! :D :D

_________________
Don't make me go get my flying monkeys-


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Oct 02, 2010 5:14 pm 
Offline
2000+ Post Club
2000+ Post Club
User avatar

Joined: Sun Aug 13, 2006 7:11 pm
Posts: 2670
Location: Port Charlotte, Florida
Wow! What a great honor to meet someone like Herb Stachler and to hear his stories! It's neat that he's still in such spry shape at his age.

Not to hijack this thread, but. . .
Yesterday at VFM, I met and chatted with a former B-24 gunner (ball, waist, and tail) who had flown 36 missions with the 15th AF out of Italy, including an incredible FIVE missions to Ploesti without being shot down! He said they got double mission credit for the Ploesti flights and any that went over the Alps. His adjusted total at the end of his tour was 50 missions.

These brave men are passing on at an alarming rate these days. It's such a privilege to meet them, shake their hands, and live a bit of their lives through their stories.

Dean the humbled


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Oct 02, 2010 7:06 pm 
Offline
1000+ Posts!
1000+ Posts!
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 25, 2005 11:36 am
Posts: 1202
Pretty cool story and man...... Of course he was fortunate to not have been shot down wearing a jacket with someone taking an axe to Hitler. I'm sure they wouldn't have been kind to him....

So how did he fly?

Mark H

_________________
Fly safe or you get to meet me .......


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Oct 02, 2010 11:07 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Oct 18, 2004 8:37 am
Posts: 848
Location: Moncks Corner, SC, USA
Dean,

I know what you are talking about:

Another great experience on the USS Yorktown yesterday. The daughter of a WWII vet came up to the desk, and asked if we could let her dad inside the ropes on the Douglas Dauntless dive bomber. I escorted him down the hangar deck to it. He explained he had been a rear gunner on a Dauntless during the war. As we approached, you could see his face light up, and he asked if he could go behind the rope and touch it. Of course we let him.

We assisted him up on the wing walk, and he climbed up to the gunner's station. As he stood there, you could see the years fall away as his memories took him back to 1943, when he was a 17-yr-old going into combat against the Japanese. He stood there for a few moments, and then turned to let his daughter take a few photos. He came down the wing walk with a lighter step than he had when he walked up, and the smile on his face would have lit a whole room. He stayed a little while and told a few stories, and then left to see the rest of the ship.

If anyone asks why I volunteer, this is why.

Walt

_________________
If God had intended airplane engines to have horizontally-opposed cylinders, Pratt & Whitney would have built them that way.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Oct 02, 2010 11:45 pm 
Offline
Long Time Member
Long Time Member
User avatar

Joined: Sun Oct 10, 2004 4:43 pm
Posts: 7501
Location: northern ohio
great story & pics!!! i've often wondered this..... what was the penchant or attraction for u.s. pilots to wear the raf mark 8 goggles?? what quality did they have that was so coveted by the yanks?? were they bartered for?? poker games, etc?? i've yet to see a limey in a pic in a pair of ww 2 u.s. flight goggles of any type!! :?: :?:

_________________
tom d. friedman - hey!!! those fokkers were messerschmitts!! * without ammunition, the usaf would be just another flying club!!! * better to have piece of mind than piece of tail!!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Oct 03, 2010 5:01 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu May 25, 2006 5:40 am
Posts: 463
Location: Shasta Lake, CA
Great story - Thanks! :D

_________________
Dave


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Oct 03, 2010 6:37 am 
Offline
2000+ Post Club
2000+ Post Club
User avatar

Joined: Sat Apr 11, 2009 5:28 am
Posts: 2008
Location: massachusetts
cherish that moment for all time. they soon will be gone forever. At the corsairs over connecticut event we had, almost all the people who came in 2005 had passed away. I know it's part of life and our veterans can't go on forever, but i feel so sad and greedy for wanting them to always be with us and i know soon they will have their last patrol. My 2 year old son will never understand or hear a story from one of them, only from what's on tv. Although, i did have him take a photo with a corsair pilot so at least when he gets older i can truly say," once when you were little i took you here and the man that's in this photo with you is a man you never got to know. A man who once fought for our freedom and stood in the face of evil. The ground you stand on is free because of the help of this man."

Thank you for the p-47 story!

_________________
" I am a nobody in aviation, but somebody to my family."


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Oct 03, 2010 8:11 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed Jul 21, 2010 6:24 pm
Posts: 286
Location: Teaneck NJ
Thank you for sharing. Those times went so much that he kept everything! what happened to his P-47?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Oct 03, 2010 8:28 am 
Offline
2000+ Post Club
2000+ Post Club
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jul 31, 2005 7:28 pm
Posts: 2184
Location: Waukesha, WI
Record and document all you can, if possible. This is fantastic! You are very lucky and thank you for sharing.

_________________
"There are old pilots and bold pilots but few old, bold pilots."


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Oct 03, 2010 11:04 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Feb 14, 2008 1:41 pm
Posts: 692
Location: Palm Coast, Florida
sdennison wrote:
Record and document all you can, if possible. This is fantastic! You are very lucky and thank you for sharing.


Recording and documenting their stories is very important. I have a lot of sadness (almost guilt) that I never took the chance to interview my grandfather before he died in 2008 about his experiences as a hump pilot flying B-24s and C-47s. I'm at a point that if I meet, or read about a WW2 vet that is still alive, I'm amazed, because I think that they're all gone. I know it's not true, but it's how I'm starting to think.

_________________
"According to the map, we've only gone 4 inches."


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Oct 03, 2010 1:10 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 25, 2008 2:18 pm
Posts: 743
Location: OHIO
I will be seeing Herb again this week as he wants to come play airplane again. If any of you want to ask specific questions, feel free to PM me and I will ask him and get back with you.

I asked him about the RAF goggles and he said that he just liked the looks of them better. I will see what photos he may have that I could possibly scan and I may be able to get the ID of his natural metal P-47. I never did ask if he had his logs from WWII. The leather gauntlets were the ones he was wearing when he was shot down on D-Day+2. He said he still has his flying boots as well. Even though he went up in both our Wacos, he didn't fly either of them. I asked if he wanted to fly the Cabin and he said "No, thats ok...I have never flown anything with a big steering wheel...only a stick"! We plan to take him up in the Champ this week and let him fly that.

On a side note, AIR & SPACE magaizne did an article in August about my wife and I and Waco airplanes and I mentioned my interest in aviation came from my father, a WWII pilot who C.O. of HQ Sqd, IX Troop Carrier. About 3 weeks ago I was contacted by the Editor who said she had a letter requesting to get in touch with me. It was from a former pilot in my father's squadron! I quickly called him and we had a great chat. He said only 4 others remained and he gave me the phone numbers of three of them. It was great to speak to all of them and one is sending me a bunch of history as he was with my father from N. Africa to Sicily to France to Holland...1943-45. Take advantage of talking to any of these vets that you can. I give every single one a Waco ride that wants one!

_________________
President National Waco Club
Curator for the Waco Historical Society Air Museum
Writer for VINTAGE AIRPLANE, SKYWAYS, BARNSTORMERS.COM EFLYER


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 32 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next

All times are UTC - 5 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 293 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group