Warbird Information Exchange

Shay, I know what you mean, but the NMUSAF doesn't have any time capsule aircraft on the same level of FB. Most of the aircraft that the museum recieved were either in poor shape when they got them and need to be restored due to damage, or missing parts. The aircraft that flew in are usually airframes chosen for a certain reason, and many times delivered to the museum in markings that are not portraying the aircraft in it's significant period. Therefor the museum changes the markings abck to the ones it wore during it's most historic period. While others are representative schemes. The B-29 is pretty much a time capsule inside. The gear doors and bombay doors were touched up and painted, but the interior is original. If the museum is doing a fresh paint job, then yes, they like a nice clean scheme, however the museum understands what FB is all about. I can tell you it would not be painted.
You bring up Swoose, but Swoose had been damaged and had some corrosion issues. This all occurred while in storage. The aircraft's interior was not in a preserved state and therefore was pretty run down. The insulation had been dried out, and was crumbling. The nose had been damaged from what I believe was a truck while in storage at NASM. Not like Flak Bait which is like the day it came off of the line.
I praise the NASM for it's collection and for it's dedication, I have a problem however with FB not being on display. It should have been one of the first at UH.

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Chris Henry
EAA Aviation Museum Manager

I understand all that. Strawberry Bitch was the closest thing to a preserved combat veteran, but was "refurbished" prior to departing Davis-Monthan in the '50s. But in Flak Bait's case It's my opinion that more damage might be done by replacing dried out insulation and areas that exhibit corrosion. In enviromentally controlled museums and regarding historic aircraft that won't fly again I'm not convinced that the gains outweigh the losses. Sure, stabilize the corrosion but don't replace it.

after 200+ missions in the ETO

Again all this is simply "My Opinion"



A couple questions:

1.) Again, why has FB never been reassembled for display?

2.) Wikipedia boasts that Flak Bait , Is this accurate, no other Bomber attained more than 202/207 missions?

3.) How come with other aircraft being declared "War Weary" examples like Flak Bait soldiered on?

Shay
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Semper Fortis

Haha Shay I meant the flight line, not production line. I think the thing that held up the NASM before was just space in the Mall building, but there just is no good reason not to have FB out at UH.
That being said, the NASM is a museum that is unmatched in the quality of aircraft displayed. I would be shocked if the NASM didn't keep FB for themselves.

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Chris Henry
EAA Aviation Museum Manager

Thankfully that's changing - the MH-53 brought directly from Iraq is one of the best examples - way to go! That's one of the reasons I wrote to the NMUSAF Curator some time ago about obtaining famous C-130E 62-1817 "right off the flightline" and he responded in agreeement, however I don't think any action was taken. In fact, I believe she went to D-M two months ago.

It's so easy to focus on planes that served from 1940-1970 that one might forget the gold mine in airplanes retired in 2010. Warbird buffs 50 years from now will appreciate the foresight. And the "restoration" dollars savings would be HUGE because such airplanes only require preservation upon arrival.

Sadly there's a counterpoint to NMUSAF practices: I'm guessing that the EB-57 discussed in another thread is its own time capsule of sorts, and it is now going to the paint shop. Great big F-in' mistake. Then again, Dayton doesn't call and ask my opinions.

And the world continues to turn.

Ken

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"Take care of the little things and the big things will take care of themselves."

Ken very true! I love that the museum actually has a video with onboard audio and you can hear the guys get out on a mission and state, Thanks for the ride, she is a great machine. And the pilot reports back, "Hey you can tell your grand kids you had the last flight on her. SHe is heading to the Air Force Museum in Dayton". That is pretty cool.
As for the EB-57, it is being repainted in it's own markings that it carried during the war. I can understand that. It would be different if the were doing a representative scheme, but I think the paint that is on it now was painted on the aircraft just prior to delivery. The bad part is that I like the scheme it is in now.

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Chris Henry
EAA Aviation Museum Manager

Those gear and bomb-bay doors really need to be addressed at some point. I took a look a few years ago and it looks like somebody took a spray gun and shot green paint up into the bomb-bay without regard to masking or prep work. Paint is over-sprayed part way up onto the bombracks, O2 bottles, etc. It all needs to be stripped off and returned to it's proper state.
Museums go through learning curves over the years and I'm sure this was an attempt to make the visible areas of the plane (the open doors) look "cosmetically clean"...

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"Everyone wants to live here (New Jersey), evidenced by the fact that it has the highest population per capita in the U.S..."

Yeah I think that paint work was done long ago on the plane. The cockpit is complete.

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Chris Henry
EAA Aviation Museum Manager

The subject of Flak Bait begs the question of why this aircraft and other planes like the B-25 Carol Jean are not on display. I assume it's a problem of dollars and manpower, but I would much rather see these aircraft assembled and on display "as is" until they can be rotated into the restoration/preservation cycle. Basically, "store them on display". The B-25, unless I'm mistaken, flew into Dulles and was essentially ready for display when it was delivered in the 1980's. Why not just roll it into the museum from it's storage hangar? I'm sure there's more to it than I'm aware of...

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"Everyone wants to live here (New Jersey), evidenced by the fact that it has the highest population per capita in the U.S..."

You are spot-on. Flak Bait's parts should be preserved and reassembled so that the airplane can be seen (as has been said) like the P-61 and P-38. Maybe there's something going on behind the scenes, but I can't imagine what ...

As for Carol Jean, I would support her being put on display until the restoration queue can accept her. Other posters may disagree, but I submit that she can't stay "as-is" forever. I would prefer to see her restored to a level in line with How Boot That? or Apache Princess. Keeping a wartime-style paint job while configured more like a TB-25N isn't my impression of upholding the Smithsonian standard. Hopefully her donation wasn't made with the stipulation of retaining her current scheme.

For a different example, take the C-130A, sitting outside at Dulles since 1989. It looks like he11. This is an historic airplane, but I'd rather see a 2010 retired C-130E land at Dulles and be whisked indoors after a day in the wash rack and the necessary pickling. The A-model just looks like it will take too much work to overcome its weathering. The A's did great things, but many E's can boast combat ops in Vietnam, Grenada, Panama, Iraq, Bosnia, Afghanistan, as well as counter drug ops. An appropriate E-model would make a great display.

Who can we petition to get Flak Bait on her own gear???

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"Take care of the little things and the big things will take care of themselves."

We need a "mustangdriver" doppelgänger at the NASM.

Shay
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Semper Fortis

Flack Bait was set aside for the fact it was the only Bomber in the ETO that flew 200+ Combat Mission with out an abort. That is the reason it was set aside.

There was no other Bomber in the ETO that even came close the top B-17 was 42-40003 Ole Gappy from the 524th Bg/379th Bs which had 157 mission but had one mechanical failure abort, the next close's was 909 with it's 140 with out an abort.

The WWII Gallery at NASM Mall is too small to hold both a complete B-26, and anything else. Since the West Gallery was used for temporary exhibits (the Hellcat and AR-234 were there at one point or another) and the former Vertical Flight/Enola Gay Gallery used for the flight simulators (revenue generation being key these days <sob>) room would be a major constraint.

The limitation with UH has been the desire/priority to vacate from Garber. Having been to UH opening day in 2003, and well over 150 times since then (I live a few miles away and until they discontinued the program - again revenue generation being key - I had a $50 no-limit annual parking pass) its really amazing at how many airplanes NASM had stashed away at Garber that they've moved in over the last seven years.

I believe that there's only been one aircraft that's been physically moved directly from Mall to UH, and that's a mailplane (Jenny, I think) that was part of the new (couple years back) "America By Air" exhibit and a "special case". Situation there was that the plane was up on stilts semi-underneath the second floor walkway ... and ended up getting damaged because f*&#$@g kids would throw things like coins down onto it, punching through the fabric surfaces.

With the focus on getting things out from Garber, which has been driving restorations (Uhu) and time-capsule reassemblies (the P-61) I believe Flak Bait was put into the queue for restoration/reassembly once Phase II was built - and I'd heard that she was supposed to be first up. Not a lot of sense in hauling her out of Mall to Garber to make sure everything was together and fit properly, then disassemble it, haul it out to UH for reassembly. Since Phase II was built with Engen family money (have I mentioned that revenue is key yet?), she's probably now down the queue since the Helldiver will go through first.

That also explains why many of the aircraft stored at Dulles (like Carol Jean, the Invader and Sageburner) haven't been addressed. Enterprise was restored on-site by the NASM team - getting the shuttle on display for the opening was as much a priority as Enola Gay and the Dash 80 - and the C-121 and F-14 were restored mostly/solely with private effort (Super Connie was stripped and painted by one of the airlines, the Tomcat by a team up from VF-31 prior to the Tomcat Sunset ceremony - and they managed to botch the paintjob). The SR-71 and RF-8G were towed over as-is. Not sure what else is stored at Dulles now besides the above and the C-130 - the last pic of the NASM "barn" there I saw was still prior to UH opening and Enteprise, Sageburner, the B-17 (now outside Savannah GA) and the Apollo 11 "Hornet + 3" Airstream trailer were all visible in the pic.

Here's my effort. Please excuse the phone pic.



Cheers,
Matt

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Matt Austin - playing with warbirds since the early 80s.

See my Lee-Enfield videos at - http://www.youtube.com/user/Jollygreenslugg

It took me a year to make this happen... That is getting to DC with the coat.

FLAK-BAIT by Cherry Bomb Photography, on Flickr

I was stopped by several Smithsonian Employees and they asked many questions. The coat was a big hit. Seems that the reassembly may be sooner than later.

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Andrew King
Air Museum Director with no Museum to Direct
Open to Suggestions

I don't know about any 'aborted missions' in this case, but the record for an Allied* bomber:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/De_Havilla ... to#Bombers

What most people don't realise was that this aircraft was slated for preservation, had it not been lost with its crew in a tragic, pointless accident.

An RAAF DAP Beaufort with over 100 missions to its credit (a high record considering the nature and duration of the Pacific as against the European war) was sold for scrap by the Australian War Memorial (AWM) in 1953; thankfully much later another 100+ veteran was obtained and restored. The AWM Has ex-RAAF Lancaster G for George with 90 missions on display, while the RAF Museum has Lancaster S for Sugar with 137 missions. If only we had Freddie in Canada, too.

Regards,

*Effectively excluding Russian machines, as we don't know any reliable records.

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James K

"Switch on the underwater landing lights"
Emilio Largo, Thunderball.

www.VintageAeroWriter.com