B-29 S/N 42-65377 history needed - just brought her home.

[Quest Master]

Hey there fellow WIXers,
I just brought home the first of two B-29 tails for the QuestMasters collection. I will post pictures later....sorry, it's late and it's dark. The first is B-29 S/N 42-65377. I've already done a quick search.....let's see what you guys come up with for her history. I'll be bringing the second tail section home tomorrow. I'll post her S/N and pictures hopefully tomorrow. Fire Away! Thanks - Van

[TonyM]

There is no history for this AC listed in Robert Mann's excellent B-29 airframe history book.

Apparently I have been asked about this airplane before because the serial is marked in my copy of this great book.

The airplane is listed as a TB-29B in my records.

The airplane was abandoned in flight after suffering an uncontrollable engine fire.
The airplane crashed at 2207 CWT 15 miles northwest of Pyote, Texas, on August 4, 1945.
Two crewmembers were killed and seven crew were injured.
Gunner Cpl. Paul J. Price and gunner Cpl. Richard J. O'Donnell were killed when they failed to bail out.

A detailed summary for this B-29 crash can be found on

Page 1148, Volume 3, FATAL ARMY AIR FORCES AVIATION ACCIDENTS IN THE UNITED STATES 1941-1945


Good Luck with your research.

TonyM.

[the330thbg]

Same info I have as well. I have her as a TB-29Q. Pilot at the time of the crash was, James B. Nutter. Accident occurred 15NM NW of Pyote AAF, TX. 4 Aug 1945.

[Second Air Force]

I suspect that airplane started life as one of the dedicated trainers assigned to the 73rd Wing. When time allows I'll go through my Kansas material to see if the serial number pops up.

She was assigned to the Pyote Base Unit at the time of her demise, so I'm guessing she spent her entire life as a crew trainer. I am a little uncertain as to why she carried a "B" suffix unless she'd been stripped of CFC equipment to train 315th Wing crews.

[TonyM]

Just took a look at the USAAF Form No. 14 Aircraft Accident Report for this aircraft.
The report is substantial and includes numerous photos.

The airplane's home station is listed as Pyote Army Air Field, Texas;
the airplane was assigned to:
236th CCTS AAFBU
16th Wing
2nd Air Force

Not sure about the "B" either, could be a typo.
But I also have 42-63642 listed as a TB-29B and also 42-63598 as TB-29B.
I didn't make these up, these designators are straight off of the AAF accident reports.
AAIR has the airplane listed as a TB-29Q.

Good Luck with your research

TonyM.

[Second Air Force]

I've seen the TB-29B listing in other documents as well, Tony. I suspect it is either the CFC-stripped machines as I mentioned in my earlier post or another modification we don't have info on as yet. Most of the stripped trainers (ten at each of the four bases according to the 2AF order) at the four 315th Wing stations were transferred out when the Wing completed stateside training, so reassignment to Pyote could make sense.

The Q designation is a mystery to me at this time. Maybe a typo? It's a long way from Q to B on the typewriter, though!

[Quest Master]

Well, she definately ended up as a TB-29 based on the tow target "chutes" under her tail.....but how did she end up converted as a TB-29 if she crashed in '45 killing two of her crew and ultimately at China Lake? Weird! Is it possible that her tail section was salvaged and added to a later aircraft. The tail is painted black (original) so she definately had post 1945 use.

I got the other B-29 tail home today. I'll try to post pictures tomorrow. I photographed this one and I'll try to do the other tomorrow.

[Second Air Force]

Well, she definately ended up as a TB-29 based on the tow target "chutes" under her tail.....but how did she end up converted as a TB-29 if she crashed in '45 killing two of her crew and ultimately at China Lake? Weird! Is it possible that her tail section was salvaged and added to a later aircraft.

This is an interesting mystery. She was almost certainly a "standard" TB-29 crew trainer when she crashed in '45. The tow target stuff didn't come about until a number of years later. I can't imagine a scenario where the Pyote folks would have salvaged parts of a crashed airplane to repair another ship with the war ending just a few weeks later. Perhaps that's exactly what happened in this case.

Regardless, it'll be fun to continue researching her history, and I'm glad you've saved the pieces. I'll dig out all my stored B-29 material to see if I can find anything on '377.

S

Last edited by Second Air Force on Sat Sep 04, 2010 11:36 am, edited 1 time in total.

[Quest Master]

Ok, here is the first group of pictures of this tail. I will post more on my website.
I will photograph the second tail section this afternoon.
Here we go:


The data plate inside the tail is marked:
AIRPLANE MOD. B-29
DWG. NOR PART NUMBER 3-14335-14
CONT NO. W33-038-AC-117
SER. NO. 377
with a circle inspection stamp 985 and a square with AN E474

This aircraft was certainly used after 1945. Note the paint scheme and all of the original stenciling.
Note: you wrote "337" as the S/N.....the S/N is "42-65377". Please no more typo's.....this saga is confusing enough!

Note the holes that go through the tail from being used as a ground target at China Lake....but she does not show up on her list. Hmmmm. The holes go through the sides and floor of the tail section. She is a real talker!!!
Fire away!!! I love this stuff!

[Second Air Force]

I corrected my typo. You're correct--more numbers just make it more confusing.

I am starting to wonder if the serial number on the tailcone data plate isn't only for that component rather than the last three of the airplane serial.

Scott

[Cvairwerks]

Something to consider is that the tail section could have been a spare and not installed on 42-65377. The only way that you could be sure that it was installed, would be finding that s/n stenciled on the section itself, or damage or a repair that could be traced to that specific s/n.

I've seen where serialized parts are not installed on the correct or planned s/n or sequence number aircraft. Probably the best example (outside of in the factory swapping) would be when the storm tore up all the B-36's at Carswell in the 50's. Parts were swapped like crazy, with a very minimal paperwork trail so that the maximum number of combat capable a/c could be repaired in the minimum amount of time. A friend was part of Convair's tooling dept. and helped plan and accomplish all the repairs that SAC couldn't at the time, including setting up for grafting fuselage sections together to rebuild a/c. He said that within a few hours after the storm, they had mechanics pulling and swapping to get the least damaged a/c back in the air, and SAC didn't care too much about the record keeping of where parts came from or went.

[Joe Scheil]

I almost can guarantee that the c/n 377 has nothing to do with the military serial of 42-65377. I would guess that this relates to the constructor number of the plane, and perhaps that would be "4377"or 11377 or 12377 or 13377. I know those may be correct constructor numbers. At the least, what was the 377th one made? ...I would guess one of the ones reclaimed in Peote TX....

[turretguy]

I'm with Joe Scheil in that the number 377 has nothing to do with the aircraft's serial number.

Van, it would be helpful if you could post a photo of the data plate you've located. Yours says:

AIRPLANE MOD. B-29
DWG. NOR PART NUMBER 3-14335-14
CONT NO. W33-038-AC-117
SER. NO. 377

I don't have a B-29 parts manual with me, but I believe drawing/part number refers to the entire tail gunner's compartment assembly. I believe these were built by a supplier south of Renton, Washington, and delivered to the factories as completed sub-assemblies.

On the other tail gunners compartments I've seen that are detached from the aircraft, the stamping for 3-14335-14 says "Unit No." rather than serial number. So the unit number is unique to the sub-assembly rather than the aircraft's serial number.

Of the detached tail gunners compartments I've seen, the unit numbers are as follows:

Van's silver tail: Unit 998
Taigh Ramey's: Unit 142
Mine: 335

What we need to find is a cross-reference that shows which tail gunner's compartment sub-assembly was installed on which aircraft.

Thoughts?
Nick

[Cvairwerks]

The only way that you can abolutely correlate a part s/n to a specific a/c s/n, is by the aircraft records. In the case of production records, they are most likely all gone. It's only since the war that recordkeeping has gotten to the point that the unit maintenance records would even have a chance of showing s/n's for changed componets. Depot records would likely have the info too, but even finding those for a -29 would be almost impossible today.

I'm fairly sure that these days, once an a/c is disposed of, the records go to short term storage and then disposal themselves. Records on components removed for reutilization live on until the component is scrapped or destroyed.

The old adage about the paperwork for an a/c being close to the empty weight of it, is pretty close.....

[PbyCat-Guy]

What are you planing to use the tail section for, display, or restoration then display, or just a discussion piece for guests? Great find and more pics please!