Warbird Information Exchange

Sikorsky Protests Navy Plan to Buy Russian Choppers for Use in Afghanistan
Bloomberg 08/04/2010
Authors: Rachel Layne and Gopal Ratnam



United Technologies Corp.’s Sikorsky unit, the maker of Black Hawk helicopters, protested the U.S. Navy’s plans to buy 21 Russian-made Mi17 choppers, saying U.S. manufacturers weren’t allowed to compete for the contract.

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" excuse me stewardess I speak jive"

I thought it was the air force, the AF has already been purchasing them. They do good in the Hot& High enviroments of Afghanistan. Only thing comparable/ that does as well is the CH-47.

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All I did was press this red button here...

it's the u.s. military period. if the russkies have us beat on the price than the barter method should apply to the u.s. chopper industry & weapons industry as a whole. that is gauling!! with unemployment hovering around 10 % here in the u.s. the pentagon throws the bone elsewhere?? i fail to see the logic. if russia's product has more perks then let our industry meet it or beat it.

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tom d. friedman - hey!!! those fokkers were messerschmitts!! * without ammunition, the usaf would be just another flying club!!! * better to have piece of mind than piece of tail!!

The US aerospace industry cannot supply a bunch of rugged, powerful, ready to go Helos as of yesterday. Period. Don't even get started with the MV22 POS.
The Mil's are the right tool for the job right now. And even as much as they are overpaying it's still cheaper than the Bazillion dollars a U.S. Supplier would require for something similar.
I have been up close and personal with the Mil's in question, they are good stuff.

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All I did was press this red button here...

And in 10 years, they'll make the first delivery....

Since the big lift helo programs have been stripped of all their money, show me a current program that is off the shelf where the US Navy can buy what they need. Can't just go and have Sikorsky build new MH-53's now that the line's been shutdown again. Can't just go have Boeing build new HH-47s now that that line is in limbo again.

Mil Helicopters has a Mi-17 variant with Western (mostly American) avionics, so why not? The aircraft really aren't that bad. They're easy to maintain and they're reliable as long as you put competent pilots and maintainers on them - which the Navy can provide both of.

The Navy is not maintaining the aircraft, its up for bid by contractors. My company has submitted a proposal.
The aircraft will also be flown by contractors in the theatre.

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If God had wanted man to fly behind a flat motor, Pratt Whitney would've built one.

Just as good. There are several very competent and experienced Mi-17 operators out there, even a couple in the US (dunno which one you work for and I'm not going to ask if you don't want to divulge), so I'm not worried about maintenance.

HH47 is still in production! CSAR?


http://defensetech.org/2006/11/10/chino ... he-rescue/

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" excuse me stewardess I speak jive"

CSAR-X was cancelled entirely in June of 2009 -

http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/gao ... act-03082/

RIDLEY TOWNSHIP, Pa., July 21, 2010 -- Boeing [NYSE: BA] on July 22 will celebrate the 100th CH-47F Chinook helicopter built at the company's Ridley Township facility.

"This is an incredible milestone," said Leanne Caret, Boeing vice president, H-47 Programs. "More than 2,000 Boeing employees work on the Chinook program, and they all share in this exceptional accomplishment with the rest of the company and our partners, suppliers and customers. We are dedicated to delivering aircraft with advanced capability and the utmost quality to meet warfighters' urgent needs."

Following delivery to the U.S. Army in August, the 100th Chinook will be fielded by the next unit equipped with the new aircraft.

Since completing the first production model CH-47F Chinook in August 2006, Boeing has trained and equipped six U.S. Army units and is in the process of equipping the seventh. Four units have completed deployments in Iraq and Afghanistan, where the helicopter logged nearly 50,000 flight hours and maintained an operational readiness rate of over 80 percent conducting air assault, transport and support operations.

"The CH-47F is proving its exceptional capabilities every day in combat operations," said Army Col. Bob Marion, Project Manager for Cargo Helicopters. "The technological advantages and improvements in the CH-47F are powerful combat multipliers that save soldiers' lives and support overall contingency operations in theater. I am extremely proud of our Cargo Team."

To further meet the needs of Chinook customers around the world, Boeing is implementing a $130 million renovation that will enable the Ridley Township factory to gradually increase production levels from the current four aircraft per month to a new rate of six aircraft per month in 2012.

The CH-47F features a newly designed, modernized airframe, Common Avionics Architecture System (CAAS) cockpit and Digital Automatic Flight Control System (DAFCS). The CAAS greatly improves aircrew situational awareness, and DAFCS provides dramatically improved flight-control capabilities through the entire flight envelope, significantly improved performance, and safety in the harshest of environments.

CAAS also incorporates an advanced digital map display and a data transfer system that allows storing of preflight and mission data. Improved survivability features include the Common Missile Warning and Improved Countermeasure Dispenser systems.

A unit of The Boeing Company, Boeing Defense, Space & Security is one of the world's largest defense, space and security businesses specializing in innovative and capabilities-driven customer solutions, and the world's largest and most versatile manufacturer of military aircraft. Headquartered in St. Louis, Boeing Defense, Space & Security is a $34 billion business with 68,000 employees worldwide.

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" excuse me stewardess I speak jive"

I read that the AF is "using" some Mi's, the article didn't say they owned them?

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" excuse me stewardess I speak jive"

I can't find any information on how many CH-47F's are actually new-build, including Boeing's own site, but it is a small number based on what I found. The vast majority of all CH-47F's are remanufactured CH-47D's, of which, most are remanufactured CH-47B's, of which many are remanufactured CH-47A. The point - building brand new CH-47's for the Navy is still something that isn't a "deliver next week" proposition, which was my point, especially as Boeing would have to make design changes and order the parts (some of them very long lead) to meet the Navy specifications. As it is, the prototype CH-47F flew in 2001, the first production remanufactured aircraft rolled off the line in 2006, and only now (4 years later) is the 100th being delivered. Not really a lot of "hurry" in the production, so not really setup where they can just add a couple dozen airframes, even if the Navy did order exactly the same aircraft as what's being delivered to the Army.

Agreed! However, I'll bet that Boeing already has completed or nearly completed drawings for the Navy bird? Not to say they would go in to production tomorrow. I would also bet that the USMC CH-46 shares most of if not all of the same structure and hardware. It seams as tho the US military is going more and more towards standardization of equipment. But if the Mi-17 fits the bill and is ready right now for the right price then why not?

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" excuse me stewardess I speak jive"

CH-46's been out of production for decades and has very little similarity to the Chinook. As it is, the Marines and Navy are doing everything they can to get rid of the few Frogs they have left because they're such a maintenance nightmare and has such little spares support.

Here's a pic of a CH-46/BV 107 and a CH-47/B(V) 234 sitting side-by-side to show the differences in just the civilian versions - http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c ... 10171a.jpg

What I'm trying to say as far as the Chinook goes,is that the basic design is the same threw out. What's the difference between a Chey 1/2 ton and a Chevy 1 ton? Not much except the odvious, and whatever the customer wants for options. I am also saying if any military force US or otherwise wanted 100 of any one type of helo I'll bet the manufacture would do their best to make them happy.

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" excuse me stewardess I speak jive"