Stars and Bars.., I give up!!

[the330thbg]

Can someone please assist in adding dates of use for these emblems?

A:
B:
C:
D:
E:
F:

Many thanks..,!!

[b29flteng]

A. 1919-May 1942
B. May 1942-June 1943
C. June 1943-Aug. 1943
D. That's a "B" converted in the field to an "E"
E. Aug. 1943-1947
F. 1947 to present

Or close to those dates.

[Steve Nelson]

"D" was used primarily (if not exclusively) in the Pacific. The white bars and red border were ordered to be added in June of '43, but crews in the Pacific did not want any red in their insignia, to avoid any confusion with the Japanese "Rising Sun" That's the same reason the red "meatball" was removed from the U.S. insignia shortly after the war started.

Personally, the red-bordered "summer of '43" insignia has always been my favorite.

SN

[the330thbg]

Brilliant, gents.

Many thanks.

[Django]

I've not seen "D" before. Interesting.

[Second Air Force]

I've not seen "D" before. Interesting.

Yep, D is not as common, but it was seen in the various theatres. Possibly several reasons in the MTO and ETO--lack of red paint for the border on forward fields, no time to complete the job, etc. There are a few photos of B-24s, B-25s and B-17s with "D" on the fuselage sides and the standard roundel with no bars on the wings. There were also some airplanes with yellow bars rather than white and a variety of bar dimensions, some really almost squares rather than rectangles.

The transition periods make for some interesting markings choices--the TIDAL WAVE B-24s had a few configurations of national markings in evidence.

Scott

[mazdaP5]

Diamond Lil flew with D, though the roundel had the yellow European campaign ring around it.

[the330thbg]

so there is another version? a G? which is a hybrid of D with a yellow ring around the star?

[mazdaP5]

The yellow theatre ring is a British marking, you see it on Spits and Swordfish and Hurricanes all the time. A lot of B-24's flew with the yellow ring also, I think I've seen A-20's with it too.
You'll notice she also carries the RAF style flag on the tail. A little bit of digging shows this was used for the invasion of French north Africa.

http://cocardes.monde.online.fr/v2html/ ... _unis.html

Here's a bad picture of a picture.

[Second Air Force]

Well, I suppose there is more than one version of "G", too! The North Africa-based aircraft show many different markings during the time when the insignia changes were going on. The photo of the CAF airplane that MazdaP5 posted is probably one of the more accurate schemes that airplane carried back in the day. The yellow surround and RAF-style fin flash were added to help identify American airplanes and the remnants of those markings were evident for a good while.

Hail Columbia, the B-24 that Colonel Kane flew on the Tidal Wave mission, had stars with yellow surround on both sides of the upper and lower wing surfaces and the "standard" star and bar with red surround on the fuselage sides.

MTO/North Africa markings variations would make for a pretty good book!
Scott

[b29flteng]

A, B, C, E, and F were factory applied, evrything else was a field mod.

[mazdaP5]

Well, I suppose there is more than one version of "G", too! The North Africa-based aircraft show many different markings during the time when the insignia changes were going on. The photo of the CAF airplane that MazdaP5 posted is probably one of the more accurate schemes that airplane carried back in the day. The yellow surround and RAF-style fin flash were added to help identify American airplanes and the remnants of those markings were evident for a good while.

Hail Columbia, the B-24 that Colonel Kane flew on the Tidal Wave mission, had stars with yellow surround on both sides of the upper and lower wing surfaces and the "standard" star and bar with red surround on the fuselage sides.

MTO/North Africa markings variations would make for a pretty good book!
Scott

That version of Lil had stars and bars on both upper wings as well. What it looks like is a standard Star roundel, field mod to have the yellow ring, and later modded again to have the bars. Crazy...

[Steve Nelson]

Here are a couple of examples of "G" as applied to B-24s used on the Ploesti Raid on 8/1/43. The planes came from the factory with the plain "star in circle" (B) and had a wide yellow surround added when they arrived in North Africa. Then in the summer of '43, the bars and red border were added..but the border was a bit thin, allowing the older yellow ring to show.





This is what the CAF was going for with Diamond Lil's original markings, but (I believe) the red border should have surrounded the entire insignia, rather than just the bars (which were themselves rather oversize.) Still, it was a pretty accurate interpretation for the time.

Last edited by Steve Nelson on Sat Jul 31, 2010 12:50 am, edited 1 time in total.

[Second Air Force]

Steve,

Some of the 98th Bomb Group airplanes actually had the red outline on only the new bars--the yellow theatre surround on the lozenge was left alone. Several ships had pretty much the same configuration as the old CAF scheme with no red at all, just the white bars. It seems to have been an issue of individual painters doing the T.O. compliance with haste and some leeway......

I've got a few photos in an Air Transport Command book somewhere that show all the variations of markings at North African airfields....fascinating stuff!

Scott

[Steve Nelson]

Some of the 98th Bomb Group airplanes actually had the red outline on only the new bars. Several ships had pretty much the same configuration as the old CAF scheme with no red at all, just the white bars. It seems to have been an issue of individual painters doing the T.O. compliance with haste and some leeway......

I don't doubt it..during the summer of '43 there were about as many variations of insignia as there were airplanes! It wasn't until after the the all blue-and-white star-and-bars was adopted in the Fall that you started seeing something resembling standardization. Even then, up until the end of the war there were still older aircraft with insignia that had a much darker blue border, added later in the field after the original blue circle had faded. The B-26 Marauder "Flak Bait" is a good example of this. She came from the factory with just the "star in circle," had the white bars and red border added in the field, which was later overpainted with blue (pics shamelessly stolen from elsewhere on this forum.)





One of these years I want to build a Tidal Wave B-24 with the "three color" insignia..just because it looks so cool. I've always liked "The Witch" from the Disney-themed 98th BG's 343rd BS.

SN