what happened to many full scale wood warbird mock ups??

tom d. friedman · **Posted:** Sun Jul 18, 2010 10:17 pm

again this got me thinking from an article in the latest issue of "aviation history" magazine. before the advent of the computer, many military warbird proposals / studies, programs utilized the construction of full scale wood models or mock ups to determine if production was feasible. some were & some were not. some went into production, others never got beyond mock up scale. these were wooden works of art to absolute full scale!! were any saved beyond or after testing?? maybe by company aviation historians or archivists?? usaf museum?? smithsonian air & space museum?? i've seen some pics of some real beauties!!

Steve Nelson · **Posted:** Sun Jul 18, 2010 11:03 pm

Not a warbird, but the Toronto Aerospace Museum has the original wooden cockpit mockup for the DHC Dash-8.

I remember taking a tour of the NMUSAF storage facility back in the mid-90s, and they had a room full of beautiful solid wood wind-tunnel models, many from WWII. I wish they'd put some on display.

SN

Cvairwerks · **Posted:** Mon Jul 19, 2010 8:42 am

Tom, even with all the computer modeling, wood mock-ups are still used. The problem is that they don't survive for long due to number of changes that get made and the move to hard part mock-up. They are used for basic human factors work and then once the envelope is pretty well set and approved by the customer, then there is little need for them anymore. Where they come back in quantity is for cockpit trainers and simulator tubs as well as training aides. It's a ton cheaper to build a wood cockpit tub than to use production parts and jigs.

Jerry O'Neill · **Posted:** Mon Jul 19, 2010 9:43 am

Tom;
Back in the early 1980's, the New England Air Museum was given the Kaman wooden mockup of their proposed US Navy helicopter for the competition ultimately won by the Sikorsky SH-60 Sea Hawk.
It had instruments, folding blades and tail, and four castering wheels. Unfortunately, the powers that be at the time deemed it insignificant compared to the actual airframes that needed to be undercover, so it was left outside with a couple of tarps over it. Not a very good idea for plywood. With a year or two it started to de-laminate and once it got bad enough, they had the airport fire department come in and use it for an exercise. It was burned to nothing.
At the time, if I had the space somewhere, I would've taken it, but alas, it's gone.
Jerry

hercules130 · **Posted:** Mon Jul 19, 2010 11:01 am

The PASM used to have the Bell YAH-63 mock up (may need to be checked on this, could have been Boeing AAH or S-66/67?) on display, but it was moved to outside storage and suffered as well - sad that these thing happen. I suppose it is understandable, without unlimited funds and space hard choices must be made and I would image "real airframes" will when the battle every time, and correctly so.

tom d. friedman · **Posted:** Mon Jul 19, 2010 10:29 pm

i knew i could guess that most got bit by the chain saw, but 1 only hopes for a survivor!!

hercules130 · **Posted:** Tue Jul 20, 2010 12:19 am

No doubt. If memory serves a museum, can not remember which, a museum displayed the Boeing SST mock up for some time.

Does that still exist?

JBoyle · **Posted:** Tue Jul 20, 2010 8:39 am

The Boeing SST was in a Florida Museum near Orlando...
I've often wondered what happened to it.

Probably nothing good.

Too bad Kermit Weeks wasn't there back then, he may have found a use for it.

Also, I recall photos of B-1A and F-15 mockups...
I don't think the B-1A survived the Carter cancellation.

RickH · **Posted:** Tue Jul 20, 2010 8:58 am

The Boeing SST was the backdrop for a nondenominational church at one time. Saved by divine intervention, perhaps ?

The OV-10 Bronco Association has the short wing mockup of the OV-10 in Ft Worth. It has wooden wheels !

Mark_Pilkington · **Posted:** Tue Jul 20, 2010 9:49 am

.
The Australian National Aviation Museum at Moorabbin has the factory mockup of CAC's never built - dual seat supersonic trainer/ground attack CA-31.

Quote:

CAC CA31 Operational Trainer – Full size mockup (on display)

In March 1964, with the Mirage fighter being delivered to the RAAF, the Melbourne based Commonwealth Aircraft Corporation presented its idea for a locally designed and manufactured, advanced supersonic aircraft designed to meet both flying and weapons training needs.

The basis of the project was that there was no type with this dual capability available anywhere in the world. In the 1960s, it was also seen that there was a huge gap between flying jet trainers and modern high speed fighters. This difference involved more than just speed, the flying characteristics of supersonic delta wing fighters were quite different to the subsonic trainers then available.

The original design featured a double delta wing powered by a single GE – J85 engine, the design was advanced to the stage of constructing this full size mockup, and then revised to incorporate the Rolls Royce RB172 Adour engine.

The aircraft was to feature Martin Baker ejection seats and be capable of carrying a load of 1815 kg on four wing and two fuselage hardpoints.

The RAAF jet trainer requirement was eventually fulfilled in 1967 by Macchi Trainers licence built by CAC, and a number of 2 seat Mirages built by GAF in Melbourne, resulting in the CA-31 project being cancelled, effectively ending CAC’s indigenous designs.

Engine: Rolls Royce RB172 Adour jet

Length: 37 feet 8.5 inches ( 11.5 m)

Span: 21 feet 0 inches ( 6.4 m)

Height: 10 feet 9.5 inches ( 3.30 m)

Weight: 6,080 pounds (empty) ( 2,758 kg)

Speed: 1.5 Mach

Range: 1050 miles ( 1750 km)

Apart from the AA107, (a CA-31 derivative) and the CA-15 and the Winjeel, I have not seen pictures of any other CAC wooden mock-ups?

Regards

Mark Pilkington

lestweforget · **Posted:** Tue Jul 20, 2010 10:09 am

This looks like the remains of the SST. I remember it being a backdrop in "The Planes That Never Flew" on Discovery. Not sure if it is original or repro, but something is ringing a bell that it's origional.

http://www.hiller.org/sst.shtml

As an addendum, this is one mockup I wish had survived. Perhaps a project for the brave. It would be so good to see!

http://www.pegelsoft.nl/proto.htm
http://www.aviastar.org/air/england/short_s-31.php

jet1 · **Posted:** Tue Jul 20, 2010 11:32 am

...having a few of those would be very nice but I'll bet they were just tossed in the trash or burned in a fireplace somewhere.

bluehawk15 · **Posted:** Tue Jul 20, 2010 12:14 pm

About 15 years ago there was a wooden mock-up of the T-45 in a hangar on NAS Corpus Christi. We were staging an airshow over the bay, off the Lexington, from there and I saw a new jet, so I went over to look at it. I was surprised to see wooden wheels, then saw the whole thing was wood!

Chris Brame · **Posted:** Tue Jul 20, 2010 2:12 pm

A wooden mock-up of the Douglas D-558 was spotted in a junkyard in (I think) Pennsylvania in the early '70s; it was in rough shape then, probably long gone now.

hercules130 · **Posted:** Tue Jul 20, 2010 8:23 pm

Mark_Pilkington wrote:

.
The Australian National Aviation Museum at Moorabbin has the factory mockup of CAC's never built - dual seat supersonic trainer/ground attack CA-31.

Great stuff!

Not much wood I do not think, but the the HLH mockup was scrapped at Rucker a few years ago.

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