Grissom B-17 conversion to B-17F "Old Bill"

[mustangdriver]

Thanks Steve. I am remaining an observer in this thread with no opinion, but I will address anything where I can. The nose windows are not too big of a deal due to the fact that the whole nose will have to be repaired anyway. Corrosion is nasty in that area. The parts on the nose that give it that G look are fiberglass and just bolted on. The asterdome will have to be dealt with, but doing the work that we are I don't think too bad. The chin turret is a replica, no worries there. The waist positions are not even that. They are just open areas with plexi over them. No window frames anywhere in the waist. The hard part may be trying to find the early style F windows, and if we have to make them, so parts are going to have to be manufactured. The whole tail stinger is a fiber glass shell. So that shouldn't be too bad. We still have the plans we used to make the tail stinger on "909" so that it would have a real tail stinger after it's mishap. So we can make an early style tail stinger.

[ZRX61]

The plane is pretty well empty inside and much of the hardware to make it look like a G is fiberglass replica items.

Apart from the actual cost of making the parts from aluminum, is there any other reason the replica parts are fibrglass?

[adflyer]

I like "Dry Martini & the Cocktail Kids", also an F from the 305th with a very interesting history.

[cozmo]

Even non-flying planes without a history take on a like of their own when properly cared for.

That being said, I would go far out of my way and spend money to stay in a town that had a YB-40.

Seen a few "G's" even an "F", or two, but would really be impressed with a YB-40. Not that y'all should consider it.

Seen a picture of a B-17 with a B-24 nose. That may be neat too.
Think of all the arguments that would start among visitors.

Or the five engined testbeds

Just dreaming about something really different and unique.

[Second Air Force]

If they're going to part the airplane out to make it a faux "F" model I want first dibs on the astrodome fairing and associated parts.

Scott

[GARY HILTON]

As far as I'm concerned..."F" it......Would love to see it in 100th BG. markings....one of Frank Valesh's early "Hang The Expence" birds!

[Ken]

Forgive me if this was covered in an earlier thread, but has the card on this tail# been pulled to see what it did on active duty? There may be an important, turretless G-model story that needs to be told that would be historically accurate for the airframe. Just a thought.

Ken

[mustangdriver]

Thank you to everyone that responded so far. The reason that it was missing so much stuff is because this plane was a parts source for many restorations. In an effort to dress her up again a company that makes replica turrets made the tail stinger, top turret, chin turret, and cheek windows. The NMUSAF gave the museum a real ball turret.

Ken that brings me to one of my idea while we were all brainstorming. The plane only note worthy service was being a drone controller at operation crossroads. One of my ideas was to put it in that configuration. But we aren't sure people would care to see a drone controller

[Ken]

Sure, everybody wants to see a jazzy 8th AF machine, but given lemons, make lemonade.

Bring the airplane inside. Go hog wild getting her looking exactly as she did during Crossroads. What an important part of this nation's aeronautical and strategic history - and you guys have an integral piece! Devote an area to all of that history. Show the advent of remote control and link it to the Predator UAVs that are so key on today's battlefield. On the other side, have some large posterboards that depict the B-17 fleet history. Display the ball turret on a stand where people can see it up close. Get oral histories of guys who flew bombing missions and at Crossroads and have them play at kiosks.

Will her building be large enough for visitors to walk on both sides of the airplane? I hesitate to say this, but an argument could be made (assuming she had no chin turret during the tests) to mask the airplane down the centerline and replicate a B-17F (or G depending on the nose & tail details) scheme on one side and have her natural metal Crossroads markings on the other. Ensure the diplay explains this completely. One benefit might be that you only have to do the bulk of fabrication on one side and the OD paint would help hide any bondo or new metal. The other side could be NMF or, heaven forbid, painted silver.

Sky's the limit. Crossroads is no curse. There's gonna be work involved in prepping the entire airplane and the building regardless. What I propose isn't any more labor intensive, just research intensive to get the details right. You end up with the illusion of having 2 B-17s on display. Sweet!

Ken

[390BG]

Don't get rid of the astrodome just yet - many "F"s had it installed.



I voted to keep it a "G" - there will be enough work to fix the condition issues without the major rework of putting the windows in the correct configuration (removing stagger from 1 waist window, moving the large nose windows to the opposite side of the nose, etc) BUT - if you can come up with an aircraft that truly looks like an "F", and not a slightly modified "G", then that is a noble undertaking.

[tulsaboy]

Somewhat off topic- Jet1- where did you get that photo of a YB-40? I am constantly on the hunt for photos of this model, and they are scarce!!! Just curious... back to lurking... (oh, and yes, a YB-40 configuration would be sweet!)

kevin

[mustangdriver]

If they're going to part the airplane out to make it a faux "F" model I want first dibs on the astrodome fairing and associated parts.

Scott

Thanks Scott, but I doubt we are getting rid of it. Is something would change, I would let you know.

[Mudge]

I vote for the F model.

Mudge the succinct

[Django]

"Everyone" hates the P-82 just being "painted" as the wrong model, and now it's ok to change a B-17 from a G to an F?

Who cares if it's got fiberglass parts. A certain well known flier has a fiberglass turret too. Spend what little funds you acquire wisely... Keep it a G.

[TAdan]

I say leave it as a G and restore it into its Crossroad configuration. I think that is pretty significant.

If not into it's Crossroad livery, than choose a significant veteran B-17G scheme.