Warbird Information Exchange

Hi all,

I have recently acquired the mortal remains of an Avro Avian III VH-UHC, with a bunch of manufacturer's drawings and I plan to rebuild it to airworthy condition.
It used to look like this:



(Photos courtesy of the Ed Coates Collection)

I am looking for any Avro Avian parts and any ADC Cirrus or American Cirrus I, II, III or Cirrus-Hermes engines or parts thereof.
Any help would be greatly appreciated.

I will try to post progess reports whenever possible.

Good for you!

I believe Wat Martin of Grand Valley, Ontario, Canada, has some bits. He'd be a good person to talk to. (Wat has been building/re-building De Havillands his whole long life, but he has an interest in that entire period.)

He doesn't use a computer though.

Dave

Good luck with the project, it's a nice flying airplane. I put about 1,000 miles on Greg Herrick's (Lang Kidby's old one) in 2001 ferrying it from Minnesota to New York and thoroughly enjoyed it. Had this photo taken by Tom Polapink over Old Rhinebeck on the way:






-

_________________
http://www.biplanerides1.com/

Hi,
That Avro Avian was a contender to the Gipsy Moth and is also a nice folding wing biplane. I beleave Wat Martin currently owns the only Gipsy Moth on floats (or does anybody knows about an other one?).
I would like to contact him for pictures of his Gipsy Moth on floats. Can you name me his address or do you know a person, who took detailed (close-up) pictures?
I am looking forward to seeing progress of the Avian.
Hans

_________________
Vintage style Hatz Classic builder

Wat hasn't had one of his Moths on floats for many years. He's about 86 years old now. Still very sharp and spry, and puts in a full day's work, but the floats are in the barn, detached.

AFAIK he has 2 Gipsies and a Tiger.

Call him if you like. He lives in Grand Valley, Ontario. His number is in the phone book (411).

Dave

Baldeagle - fantastic! Thanks for sharing the photo and your experience in the Avian! I haven't contacted Lang Kidby yet, but it's great to hear from someone that has flown that aeroplane.
Hans and Dave - thanks for telling me about Wat Martin, I will try to contact him.

Thanks guys!

Hi,

Can you PM me please, might be able to help you a little.

Regards

Howard

G'Day Howard,
PM sent!

Hi All,

A quick update!

Last week I picked up my first shipment of pre-cut spruce for the wing ribs, tailplane and elevator ribs and the fin and rudder complete, from Aircraft Spruce and Specialty. I now have to build a form block and steamer for steaming the cap strips and finish making the rib jigs. I have also picked up two very incomplete Cirrus engines. They are basically missing the crankshafts, con rods and some of the accessory drives. I've either bought a long and difficult engine rebuild or (being optimistic!) an outstanding spares package, if I can locate another complete engine. I have also scored an original copy of the Cirrus manual off epay.

Thanks for the update on this interesting project.

There is an Avian on slow-time rebuild to fly here in the SF Bay area, at South County Airport's 'Wings of History' museum, although I believe that the project has not progressed for a while. They had constructed a new-build fuselage, and were working on the wings the last time I visited a couple of years back.

G'Day All,

After the Great WIX "Hiccup" I haven't been able to log in until now. Anyway, here's a story for ya from early December last year...

Last year, I had run an ad in Classic Wings Downunder, looking for parts, info, etc for my first Avian. This old boy, a former country copper called Ron, from Bundaberg spotted the ad and rang me to say “I used to have one of those years ago and I believe it may still be there in Cloncurry. I have been searching for it for years.” Ron gave me a couple of names to chase in Cloncurry and after a bit of research, I confirmed the identity from archive records and managed to talk to a local who had seen it around three years previously. I must’ve been able to get the planets to align, because I had five days off coming up, confirmed with the locals that all the roads and area were dry and accessible, but I hadn’t had confirmation that the wreck was still there. So, I leapt into the car, with the trailer attached, with about four hours sleep after night shift on Monday arvo and drove 500k’s to Roma. Overnighted there, and drove 1200kms the next day to get to Cloncurry, dodging numerous dead roo’s and road trains (a road train is a semi trailer with 3-4 trailers and about 50 metres long – require a bit of planning and big cojones to overtake. Dead kangaroos may have come off second best with the trucks, but are still big enough to take out my little Corolla – and very steenky). First thing Wednesday morning, I got hold of the fellow at the local garage and he took me out to a property next to the airport where he thinks he saw the wreck. I thought “here we go, this is going to take a couple of hours”. I found it within five minutes with a chance glance into the long grass while we were walking along a track to go down to a creek. Very excited. This is how I found it....

I went back to his garage to pick up my car and drove back out to the property, managed to contact the owner and he was more than pleased for me to take it away. Took about three and a half hours to dig out and by midday, it was on the trailer and I was roasted. I had a couple of bottles of water, but that was nowhere near enough. The thought did pass my through my head that only mad dogs and effing idiots like me would be out here doing this…

And finally on the trailer with the original QANTAS hangar in the background...

I departed Cloncurry at 2pm on Wednesday and drove 500kms to Longreach and overnighted in a motel. Thursday left early and drove 1000kms to Bundaberg. Thursday night it pi$$ed down rain and it was the start of the floods in Queensland, NSW and Victoria – if I had left Cloncurry a day later, I would still be out there… Nearly ran out of petrol because two little towns that were supposed to have petrol had garages closed down. Made it on fumes, literally, into Rockhampton. Got to Bundaberg at 6pm and found old Ron the former owner. He nearly cried when he saw it.

Ron is 82 years old and bought his Avian in 1954 when he was based in Camooweal, outback Queensland, near the NT border, for £60 from Bankstown in Sydney. Mind you, he was only earning about £2 per week at the time. He was trying to convince his superiors in Brisbane that an aeroplane would be useful in his line of work, as his patrol area was something like 15,000 sq kms. He was told “ you’ve got two horses and a Landrover – that should be enough”. Bureaucracy at work.
Here it is being serviced by Ron in the main street of Camooweal...

Photo courtesy of Ron Rooke
It was amazing to hear all his memories flooding back. He was soon rattling off the ignition firing order and timing and other servicing tasks. He told some really pi$$ funny stories of his adventures in the Avian, chasing baddies, cattle duffers and searching for lost people in the outback. I should go and visit him again and record some of these escapades. He ended up pranging the Avian at the Cloncurry Air Pageant in December 1959, doing a “drunken flying” act, except he says his mate in the front cockpit had grabbed the stick and “froze”. So that was the end of the poor Avian.

Photo courtesy of Ron Rooke
Ron didn’t have the money to repair it and unfortunately, had to abandon it in Cloncurry, where it eventually got shoved (literally!) off the airport.
Friday was a relatively short 400kms drive home.
The gods must’ve smiled at me for a change because a) I found it and recovered it pretty quickly and b) managed to haul ar$e out of there before the wet season started with a vengeance…otherwise, I would’ve had to wait until April or May.
Why did I bother? The wings and tail are pretty much exactly the same as my other Avian project. If I already have the jigs set up for one, it is not much more effort to build two. I have the drawings to build another steel tube fuselage and you would be surprised how many fittings, etc I am able to salvage out of what’s left there. Lastly, it was worth all that effort just to see Ron’s reaction and hear all the stories spill out.
I have since found that VH-UVR had an interesting history as an air racer, both in England before importation (as G-ABME) and Australia. It had the front seat removed, a large fuel tank fitted and the front cockpit faired over for racing purposes. I do have some photos from the A J Jackson Collection of its time in England and it appears the owner(s) went to a quite bit of trouble to reduce drag on the struts, engine installation, etc. I am unable to post them here due to copyright restrictions. I have found evidence that it came 4th in the 1935 King's Cup Air Race. After importation to Australia in 1936, it was entered in the East-West Air Race, from Brisbane to Adelaide.
A series of owners followed until 'UVR was damaged in a forced landing on a golf course in Sydney in 1949. It remained in storage at Bankstown Airport until Ron bought it in 1954.

Ok. Now I have a "shopping list" of parts I am looking for...

Husun Mk III Compass
Reid & Sigrist Inclinometer 6A/380
Devonport Cross Level
Smiths Mk IVA Airspeed Indicator
Smiths Mk VA Altimeter
Mk V Tachometer
Period Oil Pressure & Temp Gauges
Twinob Magneto Switches and/or Air Ministry 5C/625 porcelain twin switches

Hand Crank Starting Magneto
Armstrong Siddeley Genet Major Mk 1A Engine and/or parts thereof.
Avro type Turnbuckles – 4 and 5mm
Tiger Moth Main Wheels, Brakes and Shock Absorbers

I am still looking for any leads on an ADC or ACE Cirrus Mk II or III and/or parts for VH-UHC too.
Any help would be most appreciated.

I was recently given a book on the history of aviation in and around Spokane, Washington.
Much to my surprise, the United States Aircraft Corp, was incorporated there, to build the Avian under license. It was capitalized at $100,000, a sizeable amount in those days.

The Cirrus engines were to be locally built by the Washington Machinery and Supply Company.

The dates given don't make a lot of sense..the text says 1920, but the Avian was later than that.
There is a reproduced newspaper clipping showing G-EBTU, the Avian III prototype from 1927.

I don't believe any were ever completed, the book says the cost would be about $2000.
Has anyone else ever heard of this plan?

_________________
Remember the vets, the wonderful planes they flew and their sacrifices for a future many of them did not live to see.
Note political free signature.
I figure if you wanted my opinion on items unrelated to this forum, you'd ask for it.

Stearmoth, in "Bushplanes" by Geza Szurovy, there is a half page photo close up of a Gipsy Moth on floats, G-CAOU, flown by Ontario Provincial Air Service. Photo credit to Canadian Bushplane Heritage Center. It's also mis-identified as a Puss Moth, but its tied up in still water and fairly good detail.

_________________
"I love the smell of 100LL in the morning."

Tank you very much for the hint! Will look in ebay for the book. Are the pictures b&w of the period or color from a lter time?

_________________
Vintage style Hatz Classic builder

B&W of the older stuff, color of newer planes.

_________________
"I love the smell of 100LL in the morning."