Warbird Information Exchange

Yeah Randy...When it was the "Confederate" Air Force, it was easily recognized as "tongue in cheek" but it has no relevance to "Commemorative" Air Force.

Like I said, whatever makes ya' happy.

Mudge the bird

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Land of the free because of the brave

Mudge,
Off topic, but in my 21 years surrounded by this wonderful organization I have never heard of anyone taking the col. title seriously. It's just a synonym of member. I'm a member or the EAA and I'm a colonel of the CAF.

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Taylor Stevenson

Not really related to the actual “content” of this thread, but talk of the CAF “rank of Colonel” (and the fact that this past weekend there was a memorial service honoring Major General Charles Bond of the Flying Tigers) reminded me of a conversation I had with Charlie about 10 years ago.

We were discussing the “rank” of Colonel as it applied to the CAF, and Charlie told me the following (paraphrased) story:

“Although I was never one to exactly follow protocol, I think I was only ever threatened with demotion twice in my career.

1st time was at a Pentagon Social function when I commented to a senior officer that a certain lady on the dance floor was ugly enough to “scare vultures off a fresh carcass”. How was I to know it was his wife?

2nd time was when I was asked if I wanted to join the CAF”.

To me the title of Colonel in the CAF has always represented a title of respect. It appiles to all members and equals there roles, whether they can just come out and sweep the floors and clean the planes, or to the ones that fix them or fly them. We are all equal. We are all doing this for the love of what this represents and we all should be respected for the jobs we do, equally.

Dave

Dave, That is exactly right. And for many guys who either couldn't afford to play the big game, or couldn't get their medical, or whatever, it was just a really cool way for everybody to be the same. I loved that part of it years ago. We would all work on keeping the rank equal by always using the Colonel when addressing each other and I remember that would always make the guy that swept the floor just beem! Priceless. Anybody remember the survivors parties after airsho in the O'Club in Harlingen? OMG!!!!! Undoubtedly the best party ever on the planet. No rank or power playing in that place. Just one heck of a good time.

No kidding, always conjured up a mental image of KFC commercials to me...

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Those who possess real knowledge are rare.

Those who can set that knowledge into motion in the physical world are rarer still.

The few who possess real knowledge and can set it into motion of their own hands are the rarest of all.

ZRX61, that's what it was supposed to conjure up. Look at all of the pictures of Jethro T. Culpepper, he looks like Col. Sanders ( who also had the honorary title ) It was the Confederate A.F. after all. The whole Colonel thing, while being an organizational equalizer, had its roots in the old deep south. Elderly gentlemen of means were often referred to as Colonel, in an honorary way. Since Lloyd, Lefty and the rest of the founders chose CAF as the name, they adopted the title, the Order of the Magnolia Blossom was created, as well as other southern symbols. Obviously all a play on the name Confederate. Has anyone read the "blood chit" on the back of someone's flight suit/coveralls, lately ? There's some pretty funny stuff there. Except for the airplanes and the preservation mission, the whole darn thing was a way for a bunch of good old boys to have a little fun with the whole thing.

People have lost sight of the origins of this stuff and take it way too seriously.

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"You cannot invade the mainland United States. There would be a rifle behind each blade of grass..."
Admiral Isoruku Yamamoto

Thank you, Rick. Couldn't have stated it better.

"Humor" is the key. The founders had an amazing sense of humor. It was the same sense of humor that helped most of them and their generation through a bad economic depression and a big war.

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It was a good idea, it just didn't work.

You mean this one right here Rick?

Of course the ORIGINAL patch didn't say "CAF" aviator, it said "REBEL" aviatior, and had the rebel battle flag on it.

We also had other neat names for things, like our own OSS. That was who "screened" applicants. It was the Office of Southern Security!

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Mike

After reading about all the good times in the "old days", I can understand that there was a lot of "fun and games". Sounds like something I would liked to have been a part of.
After reading the recent posts about all the internecine bickering and back stabbing, it sounds as if, like the Confederacy, "them days are gone forever" and I want no part of that.
For those of you who enjoy it, all due respect and "Good on ya'" but not me. There's a certain amount of crap one has to go through in this life and I don't need any more than I've got.

Mudge the sad

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Land of the free because of the brave

I've found this discussion to be fairly informative, and I appreciate Diane's efforts in trying to keep it at a fairly high level. While I'm not a lawyer, I am a part owner in an ESOP company and the splitting of the various entities into legally "separate but equal" components makes excellent business sense from a liability standpoint (somebody go get August Horvath, he could probably give us much better details on this). I'm not really clear as to how insulating the separate business units of the CAF against potential legal damages which could ruin the entire organization can be seen as a bad thing, though... my first thought was the tragic loss of "Carolyn" many years ago, what if bystanders/civilians had been killed in her crash? The resulting lawsuits could completely destroy the entire CAF. By having the flying part of the organization exist separately from the museum part, the museum and it's collection would have much greater legal protection in the event of a tragic flying accident with a CAF aircraft.

Can someone explain to me why that legal protection is now being framed as a "bad" thing?

Lynn

At the time, as it was explained to the membership, the seperate companies needed to be formed for asset protection due to a change in the liability laws of the State of Texas, where the CAF is incorporated. I have heard that the laws have changed again, so that now the seperate companies are not needed. I do not know this to be factual.

If, to use your example, someone on the ground had been injured/killed by Carolyn, most likely the CAF would have been named in a lawsuit. However, the CAF was only the operator of the B-26, not the owner. Unless the lawyer did some research, the American Airpower Heritage Flying Museum would most likely not be named in the suit. If it were, perhaps they could have claimed protection because the CAF was not operating their plane as they were supposed to, resulting in the accident, and throwing it all on the CAF. If you check the CAF's balance sheet, you will see that they only have a few thousand dollars in assets, so there would not be much to lose in such a lawsuit.

The Museum, and the Foundation should not be affected by such a lawsuit at all, under the laws as they existed at the time of the "on paper" split.

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Mike

My two cents worth...
I've been a CAF member for 34 years, and been involved with the CAF for 40 years. I learned early on to stay out of the politics of the organization. 99% of the members are in it for the airplanes and that's all, wether it be flying, fixing, cleaning, talking about them over a beer, whatever. What's happening now isn't the first time some of the membership has gotten their underwear knotted up and people's feelings have been hurt. We just haven't known about it since we haven't had the internet to broadcast the news 24 hours-a-day, so a lot has be kept quiet in years past. 99% of us members are going to press on regardless of who was fired, quit, or got their underwear knotted up. These things happen about every ten years and they have always work out for the best for the CAF. With all the people who have left the CAF in a huff, the CAF is still around and doing well, it could be better, so quit whining and just get over it.